JackSpratt

Hi guys,

Great board - good to see geniune people giving honest advice unlike some forums I have checked out before registering here.

Could someone give me a little advice on my routine.

I have been working out for just over 12 months now and am 24 yeat old.
Below is my current routine but do not feel it is any good.

For each exercise I do 5 sets, pyramiding so my third set is the heaviest I can do then dropping down again.

Mon - Chest and Tri's
Incline Dumbell
Flat Bench barbell
Decline barbell or sometimes decline dumbell flys
Rope press downs
Behind the back dips

Tues - Back
Incline bench rows
Wide grip pulldowns behind neck
T-bar rows

Thurs - Legs and Bi's
Squats
Leg Extentions
Preacher curls
Incline dumbell curls

Fri - Shoulders
Military press
Upright rows
Shrugs


Please be as brutally honest as you can.

Cheers,

Jack

winger

Well I like it. I dont like doing behind the neck anything though. If you can do pullups I prefer them over pulldowns only because it is more natural and more usable for an athlete. Maybe rotate them but stick to doing them in front.
It is a good routine mate, but it sounds like you are stale. You are in need of a change, thats all. If you get board then do something different.
Switch it up to keep the body quessing.
Monday
Chest------------ bench and inclines
Tuesday
Back------------- pull ups wide and close, low cable row, db row, rear delts
Wednesday
Legs--------------squats
Thursday
Shoulders--------db presses, side laterals, shrugs
Friday
Bicepts-----------preacher curls, hammer curls, reverse grip ez curl bar
Saturday
Tricepts-----------standing overhead presses, tricept push downs, standing rope presses on a horizontal plane.............hard to discribe.

Or
Monday
Chest-----------Flat bench
Back------------Pull ups wide, pull ups close grip
Tuesday
Legs------------Squats
Wednesday
Shoulders------Dumbell military presses
Tricepts--------Standing tricept extensions
Thursday
Off--------------Yea hoo
Friday
Chest----------Inclines
Back-----------Low cable rows, single arm db rows
Saturday
Shoulders-----Side lateral raises, shrugs
Bicepts--------Standing hammer curls, preacher bench

James.Titor

i must say its nice to see someone with a bit of balls. soemone that is mature enough to know its nothing persoanl if i make a harsh comment about a routine/training program. so well doen from me. now, your routine....

i hate it.

you have the split all wrong for maximum overload and recovery, the exercise selection is not all that good. and the set/rep scheme is about 30 years out of date.

i would opt for somethign like this:

1. (mon)
Squat 5x5
Lunge 3x5-8
Calves raise 3x5-8
Abs (side bends or hanging legs raise)

2. (when ever you feel like, tue/wed/fri, it doesn't matter)
Overhead press 5x5
BB-Row 5x5
Dip/Flat bench 5x5 (dip is better for mass)
Cuban rotations 2x30 (very very light)
+1-2 assistance exercises of choice, like curls for example.

3. (thurs)
repeat day 1.

James.Titor

got to agree with that.

JackSpratt

Cheers for this guys,

Can I just make sure I have this correct in my own head - for me to follow the routine James has posted, I would be working shoulders, chest and back all on one day, plus would be doing legs twice a week.

I always thought working one muscle group along with Bi's or Tri's weer more affective, or am I (as James so nicely put) 30 years out of date?

James.Titor

yep. though if you are feeling hard, you can always repeat Day 2. on Day 4.

so it would go

mon=lower body
tue=upper body
thurs=lower body
fri=upper body


why would you work the smallest muscl in your body the most? the legs (or at least the should be ) are by far the largest muscles and require the most attention. unless you have been training 10 years or more, you should be able to fart and put 3" on your biceps.

you will never get big arms, without big shoulders. (the body wont allow itself to get out of balence), and you'll never get big shoulders without a big chest/back, and you'll never get a big chest/back without big legs. and you wont get big legs without squatting, a lot of squatting.

James.Titor

it is difficult ot put this without sounding like an egotistic ****....

i have ben serously training (that is, trainig and actually knowing what i am doing) for less than 18months.

i am stronger than most poeple that have been trainng 10years are. and i look better too. the point of that booutof big headedness, was rto illistrate that you don't need to listren to all the garbage you'll read in "encyclopedia of bodybuilding" to get big and strong. you just need to knwo what your doing.

philipebrown

i think shoulders chest and back is too much in one day imho
you dont neccesarily need to stick to anyones routine, whats important is that you find what works for you, were all different. but if someone suggests something then its always worth a try. its up 2 you in the end if you wanna stick to it.

i dont think your routine is so bad, however i get bored with 5 sets, may be better off sticking to 3 sets and do more movements. i had said before that i think if your concious that you have a lot of sets left to do, you subconciously dont hit each set as hard as you can, because you kind of save yourself for the later sets instead of going flat out! thats psychological tho.

James, im not having a go mate but i do think you can be a bit hard on people sometimes. There isnt just one right way of doing things. everyone is different!

James.Titor

no worries. i have learn't in the past week or so that poeple here are alittle more sensitive than thy are else where. so i am trying to accomodate for tthat.

there is a right way of doing things, its just no-one has found it yet. my goal is to be as close to that (whatever it is) as possible in the shortest amount of time. non stop learning is the way forward.

i don't buy this "everyones different" attitude. (no offence intended)

we are all 99.99999% the same. we all react within reason, very predictably (physiologically, not psychologically). i thought there was such thing as a "hardgainer" until i actually read about how my body works. now i know its just BS peadled by people like stuart McRoberts that don't care for science or reason.

what are your thoughts?

James.Titor

the thing that is hardest to get accross to newbies and beginners, even some intermediates, is that mentality is more important than trainig programs and diet.

5x5 is not a magic number. hell, its not even close to what i'd call productive. (but because of the 3x8 BS that flex has fed everyone scince day 1, its hard to convince people that low reps and high sets is the way to go for strenth and hypertrophy.)

the point is, it will go some way to getting peopel out of thier "3 sets to failure" box. you shoudln't be talking to your mates when training, you shouldn't be aware that the woman next to you is hot, you shouldn't even notice the music blaring in your ears. every ounce of soul you have should be going into moving as much weight as possible.

5x5 is not boring. you would be too tired to be bored. all you would be thinking about is how the hell your going to do another 4x5 when the first sets of 5 was such a struggle.

Aftershock

A complete body workout twice a week is far to much to recover and grow properly IMO, unless ur not pushing to the max or ur on massive juice!!

I'd honestly stick to 3 days a week, Legs, Back Chest and work all the exercises around that, goes without saying you have to Squat, Deadlift and Bench.

I apprecaite what your recommending may work for you James, but you must be a genetic freak mate, cause I know that after a couple of weeks of that id be going backwards.

As Phil said everyone is different!

philipebrown

we are not the same, everyones skeleton is slightly different and everyone has a different range of motion within an excercise, were not robots! everyones muscle attatchment sites are slightly different, not everyone can successfully or comfortably perform the same exercise in the same manner to someone else. Some people react well to low reps, some people grow like crazy with high reps, some go slow some go fast. If there was only one right way, it wouldve been discovered by now and wed all be walking round with physiques that could win a show!

Are you saying that you have almost discovered this when millions of other body builders have practised there whole lives to find what works for them! In that case you are very lucky and fortunate to have done so.

take it easy dude

philipebrown

5x5 is not boring. you would be too tired to be bored. all you would be thinking about is how the hell your going to do another 4x5 when the first sets of 5 was such a struggle.

To you mate it might not be, to me it is, there you go again!

JackSpratt

I train because I enjoy it, I enjoy the interaction I have with other people all working to either get fitter or get in shape. To be honest, if I was to block everything around me out and focus on nothing else but what I was lifting I dont think i would enjoy it. Lifting weights is my hobby, not my life.

James.Titor

i am leaving this forum.

i cannot be botherd to debate with people that are not prepared to even entertian anything other than the opinions they hold. i wouldn't mind if you said to me:

"James, i can appreciate what you are saying, but [.......]"

with the [.....] being filled with a rational explanation. but it isn't. everytime you lot give the same old crappy excuses, "[whinge]it doesn't work for me[/whinge]"

do you think i have not been down the same road your on phil (sorry if you don'tlike being called phil but i cannot be ****d to type your full username througout this thread) i have, i used to think exactly the same as you for abotu 4 years. you know where it got me? it got me the same place it gets everyone else. nowhere. and thats when i started getting ****ed off with making crap progress, its when i realised how amazing the human body is, and what it can adapt to become. GO HAVE A READ OF S.A.I.D [specific adaptatio to imposed demand] and G.A.S [general adaptation syndrome].

take the above for example:

are you out of your mind? thats the biggest pile of horse sh1t i have ever read. at 17y/o i was about 130lbs dripping wet, i have horrible genetics and i am completely natural (as in, have never used AAS or other perfromace enhancing drugs). at 21y/o i am 190lbs and stronger than most the poeple on this board (<---- sorry for sounding like a concieted tw@). that is no coincidence. i wasn't visited by the agins fairy. i have genuinely put on nearly 60lbs of muscle, naturally, in 4 years. how many of you can boast that? i made the best gains of my life doing that (2 day, full body split), and so do the poeple i train. are you aware that oly lifters (not pro's, i mean any oly lifter) train their entire body, 2xDay, 4-6xWeek with 90%+ thier 1RM???

GET OUT OF YOUR BOX. READ SOMETHING. visit another forum, seriously. i am not saying leave here, just have a look at fortifiediron.net/invision. there are tons of pro's on thier that post and give advice. thats right. PRO'S. not amuters like me and you.

i am offering you the benifit of my (not so limited) experince here.

yes everyone has a different skeleton etc. how the fcuk is that relevant?

on a molecular level, we are all the same. your muscle cells are made of the same stuff as mine. your CNS reacts in the same way mine does. THAT is the point.

in short, no.

but consider this: did god stop time one day when arnold was in the gym doing his 5millionth set of reverse-grip-underhand-seated-overhead-cable-concentration-curls, and say to him:

"Arnie, son, this is the training forumula to make you Mr Olympia."

no he didn't is the answer.

arnie tried and tested other things. i beleive he once said somthing along the lines of "i would eat horse sh1t if it makes me win the olympia"

thats dedication and passion. and thats what i have. (not saying you don't btw)

and he hit on it. eventually, he came to a routine that produced great gains for a heavy AAS user* at the top of his game. sure, it needs tweaking from time to time, but the platform was always the same. but science and understanding of the body has mived on since then. these days, the youngest BSM contestant is 21, not 31 ala 10years ago. people are bigger and stronger than ever. BBers these days take huge amounts of AAS, but thier trainig is much better than thier predecessors too. has anyone considered that may be the reason Ronnie colemans legs are 32" and arnolds are not?

that is what has happend to me. i have pooled all i have read and now use what appears to be among the best training system in the world, for me, and the 11 people i train. now, either all 12 of us are genetic freaks that use stacks of AAS, or i am on to something.

read into that as much or as little as you please. it doesn't affect me. this is NOT aimed at anyone in particular.

as this is the last post i intend to make, i would like to thank the following people in no particular order:

1. the owners off the site
2. hacksii and winger
3. hardrive, biker and ultrasonic <--- not taking the ****. it was fun talkign to you guys.