Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

JawD · 08-03-2008, 10:31 AM

Hey folks,

This is a cut n paste from my log, hope you dont mind me drawing attention to it here just as Im after some input. Feeling a bit **** with the man flu. Worse today not better. So as said below, using this as a moment to re-evaluate my direction.

Any input is greatly received.

Cheers.

Fri 07/03/08 - Update

Ok, so here we go. Im writing an update for a few reasons. To update things (duh!), and ideally for some forum input and make sure Im heading in the right direction.

Intro

Been back into training full swing since October. Im 35 (36 this month....) and 15 stone. I was 15.5stone in October and to be honest have struggled to shift fat since. I think Im doing most things right so have been somewhat puzzled why Ive not lost more fat. Sure I could be adding some muscle, but I just dont think I can loose fat and gain muscle at the same rate. My wife says she can tell a big difference but I struggle to see it visually. Like many, my biggest issue is my gut :(

I need to invest in some calipers (cant find my old ones) to keep check on my bf%. If I could see progress in this, it would help greatly (motivation etc).

Aims

I want to loose the gut. I want to add some muscle mass. Of course I want them both to happen at the same time, but I know I cant. So, Ive been trying to loose the fat first, hence the low calorie intake. I think though that I have been perhaps been concentrating too much on weights (despite being on low food intake) and not enough on cardio, until more recently. The longer I go on though, the more I feel I want to up my cals to try and add some mass.

Diet

The method to loose fat by diet hsa been a basic negative calorie each day. This has been based around 2000 - 2200 cals per day. Ive been using Fitday to keep track though I do this maybe one week every four weeks just to make sure Ive not drifted too much. Here is a typical Mon-Fri diet:

6AM Oats with skimmed milk, Protein shake with water, Omega 369 oil,
7AM Gym
8AM PWO
10AM Half pack chicken breast, handful cashews, banana
12PM Chicken wholegrain salad bap or Salad box with a tin of neat tuna, greek yoghurt
3PM Half pack chicken breast, handful cashews, banana
5PM Drive home apple
6PM Tea : Chicken & fresh veg or maybe bolognese on spinach bed.
Note, mid week I very rarely have any starchy carbs like potato, rice or pasta. Sometimes a little wholegrain rice. but Im usually happy on protein plus fibrous veg.
8PM Occassional Greek Yoghurt
9PM Couple of forkfuls of Peanut Butter. Protein shake in milk if havent been to gym that day (and so missed out on PWO)

On a weekend, I replace the 10AM and 3PM with a MRP shake.

Note, I seldom drink. Basically around once every two weeks Id have 1-2 beers at the football.

Suppliments

One a day multi vit each day - I think particularly important when cutting cals
Creatine - I was using CEE but have recently changed to try Creapure but havent started it yet
Whey Protein - for morning shake and any time I need to top up
Micro whey protein - for PWO
WMS - for PWO
Omega 369 oil - for good fats
Lipx6 - Just started these (fat burning)

Cardio

I do around 3 days per week, jog around my local park. Takes around 30 mins. Ive started adding busts at the uphills to act as HIIT. I sometimes also add a 10 min HIIT session to the end of my weights routine if I have time.

Weights

Been doing a 3 day split. Mon, Thu, Sat.
Mon - Back/Bi
Thu - Chest /Tri
Sat - Legs/Shoulders/Abs

Going ok, last routine been doing 6 rep sets as you can see from my log. Not sure this has been best though. On the understanding I cant expect to use this for size/strength increases if Im only eating 2K cals per day. So, was thinking of changing to less weight more reps. Less rest between sets. I think....

I tend to train for 8 weeks then have a week rest. As Im suffering from man flu at the moment, Im classing this as my rest period. Hence, taking the time out to re-evaluate.

Pics are Oct 07 and Mar 08.

Lux · 08-03-2008, 11:26 AM

Have you tried carb cycling mate?

Also, try using a tape measure to indicate progress too.
Maybe practice stomach vacums to enhance your midsection??

robbiedont · 08-03-2008, 12:09 PM

I'd be more worried about my pasty face and blue lips if I were you...

JawD · 08-03-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbiedont

I'd be more worried about my pasty face and blue lips if I were you...

I know, Ive been on a few sunbeds but for some reason it doesnt seem to give any colour to my face. :confused:

As for the blue lips, this was my marylin manson phase :crazy:

JawD · 08-03-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Have you tried carb cycling mate?

Also, try using a tape measure to indicate progress too.
Maybe practice stomach vacums to enhance your midsection??

Cheers mate.

Ive been considering carb cycling. Was thinking of upping my cals to 2500 to begin with, maybe even as high as 3000. Not sure if I should do that or keep them where they are at 2-2.2K. Really not sure what to do for the best. Keep as I was going or what.

Good idea about the stomach vacuums. Prob a good idea so I think Ill add them after reading up a bit.

JawD · 08-03-2008, 02:21 PM

Thought Id add some basic questions to make it more straight forward :

Looking at my images, would you say I was right to keep trying to loose the fat before worrying about adding mass?
If thats the case, am I right to go for a higher rep range with less rest than worrying about a small rep range, heavier weight, longer rest?
Im happy with my supps
Diet : Assuming I should keep trying to burn the fat, would carb cycling be my next best step and if so, should I maybe aim for 2500 cals per day and cycle?
For Carb cycling, Ive read about going Fibrous for 3 days and starchy for 3 days, Ive also read about going high, medium, low so wasnt sure if both were as good as each other etc
I think Im right saying you keep your cals the same when cycling, some days you use fats for fuel and some days carbs. Low carb days you eat more fats?

As ever, thanks for any input. Even just to point out my flat white face ;)

robbiedont · 08-03-2008, 03:06 PM

I reckon if you lost a bit of the fat you would have a pretty good body under there, you might find that once your a bit more cut you find it gives you a bit of a lift

irwit · 08-03-2008, 03:36 PM

Id agree,

Get a month of serious cardio and very strict diet in. Keep on the weights but plenty of cardio on off days.

Id say you could put on half a stone of muscle on and not look much different but lose a stone of fat and youll look much better !

JawD · 08-03-2008, 05:41 PM

Thanks for the comments folks, appreciate it. Think I'll do just that. Ill not carb cycle yet, but will keep it clean as Im trying. Bump up the cardio big time though then see what happens.

So far the changes I think I'll do:

Add a **** load of cardio each week (meaning add evening sessions after work as well as AM sessions on off days)

Go back to a 8-10 rep range with less rest between sets, sticking to mainly compounds.

Add Stomach Vacuum routine to workouts.

Order up some calipers (anyone know a good source for these?)

Cheers,

irwit · 08-03-2008, 07:30 PM

amI going to sound like a noob here asking what a stomache vaccum routine is ?

JawD · 08-03-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irwit

amI going to sound like a noob here asking what a stomache vaccum routine is ?

Where you get your posture, and literally suck your stomach in and hold it. Kinda like trying to push yout belly button out of your own back

I guide to starting that I'll be trying would be doing 3 sets of 10 holding each one in for 20 sec. Then keep increasing each session by 10 second until you are holding in for a minute a time per "rep".

Edit: to add link

wogihao · 08-03-2008, 08:31 PM

Well one solution if you want to lose the fat, why not workout more often?

Put a few more sessions in a week and the weight will drop off you. Cardio is of limited value if you hate it because it will be a half-****d effort at best and honestly whats better having a fun session you enjoy or being bored to death on a stairmaster?

If you add in more sessions gradualy your be able to up your callories and still keep your fat off because your energy requirement will be up. also theres hormonal giggerypokery going on when you train all these hormones are usefull to your weight loss.

I will check out your journal and make further comments, just give me time

After checking, it would apear there is very little work actualy going on in the workouts themselves this is fine if your doing say each bodypart 2x a week. but if your going to train the body part 1 time per week make it worth it. I know i will catch from flack for this but the reasion why many low volume guys are fat is because theres just not the energy expenditure to counter the callories from there diet and theres not the adaptive responce there to build muscle either.

Increase the reps, increase the volume & keep your calloires the same you should see some positive change.

JawD · 08-03-2008, 08:42 PM

I dont mind cardio. I actually quite enjoy going for a run first thing, especially on the lighter mornings. Im moving house soon to a more rural area with loads of hills / fields nearby so Ill be in my element. Ive already got my eye on this big ass hill. Idea would be to run up and walk down a few times (for HIIT).

At the moment, I tend to be in the gym 3 days a week and do cardio on its own 2-3 times per week. though now Ill try and make that 2-3 mornings per week cardio, 3 gym mornings and maybe another 2-3 evening cardio.

wogihao · 08-03-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JawD

I dont mind cardio. I actually quite enjoy going for a run first thing, especially on the lighter mornings. Im moving house soon to a more rural area with loads of hills / fields nearby so Ill be in my element. Ive already got my eye on this big ass hill. Idea would be to run up and walk down a few times (for HIIT).

At the moment, I tend to be in the gym 3 days a week and do cardio on its own 2-3 times per week. though now Ill try and make that 2-3 mornings per week cardio, 3 gym mornings and maybe another 2-3 evening cardio.

Wow thats some cardio program.

Best of luck that mate - I realy mean that its not often that people have that sort of dicipline to do that many cardio sessions a week if you enjoy it its going to be productive.

The only issue you might have is muscle tissue loss from the amount of cardio your doing but to be honest if thats not a issue then thats fine - when you cut the cardio and add some more workouts at the end of it your be in a better postion to start your muscle building primed and ready for new growth in a few months then hideing under a layer of fat.

simeon69 · 09-03-2008, 12:05 AM

congrates on the weight loss evident to see so obviously what your doing is working so why make it over complicated...?

08-03-2008, 10:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 713 Blog Entries: 39	Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Hey folks, This is a cut n paste from my log, hope you dont mind me drawing attention to it here just as Im after some input. Feeling a bit ** with the man flu. Worse today not better. So as said below, using this as a moment to re-evaluate my direction. Any input is greatly received. Cheers. Fri 07/03/08 - Update Ok, so here we go. Im writing an update for a few reasons. To update things (duh!), and ideally for some forum input and make sure Im heading in the right direction. Intro Been back into training full swing since October. Im 35 (36 this month....) and 15 stone. I was 15.5stone in October and to be honest have struggled to shift fat since. I think Im doing most things right so have been somewhat puzzled why Ive not lost more fat. Sure I could be adding some muscle, but I just dont think I can loose fat and gain muscle at the same rate. My wife says she can tell a big difference but I struggle to see it visually. Like many, my biggest issue is my gut :( I need to invest in some calipers (cant find my old ones) to keep check on my bf%. If I could see progress in this, it would help greatly (motivation etc). Aims I want to loose the gut. I want to add some muscle mass. Of course I want them both to happen at the same time, but I know I cant. So, Ive been trying to loose the fat first, hence the low calorie intake. I think though that I have been perhaps been concentrating too much on weights (despite being on low food intake) and not enough on cardio, until more recently. The longer I go on though, the more I feel I want to up my cals to try and add some mass. Diet The method to loose fat by diet hsa been a basic negative calorie each day. This has been based around 2000 - 2200 cals per day. Ive been using Fitday to keep track though I do this maybe one week every four weeks just to make sure Ive not drifted too much. Here is a typical Mon-Fri diet: 6AM Oats with skimmed milk, Protein shake with water, Omega 369 oil, 7AM Gym 8AM PWO 10AM Half pack chicken breast, handful cashews, banana 12PM Chicken wholegrain salad bap or Salad box with a tin of neat tuna, greek yoghurt 3PM Half pack chicken breast, handful cashews, banana 5PM Drive home apple 6PM Tea : Chicken & fresh veg or maybe bolognese on spinach bed. Note, mid week I very rarely have any starchy carbs like potato, rice or pasta. Sometimes a little wholegrain rice. but Im usually happy on protein plus fibrous veg. 8PM Occassional Greek Yoghurt 9PM Couple of forkfuls of Peanut Butter. Protein shake in milk if havent been to gym that day (and so missed out on PWO) On a weekend, I replace the 10AM and 3PM with a MRP shake. Note, I seldom drink. Basically around once every two weeks Id have 1-2 beers at the football. Suppliments One a day multi vit each day - I think particularly important when cutting cals Creatine - I was using CEE but have recently changed to try Creapure but havent started it yet Whey Protein - for morning shake and any time I need to top up Micro whey protein - for PWO WMS - for PWO Omega 369 oil - for good fats Lipx6 - Just started these (fat burning) Cardio I do around 3 days per week, jog around my local park. Takes around 30 mins. Ive started adding busts at the uphills to act as HIIT. I sometimes also add a 10 min HIIT session to the end of my weights routine if I have time. Weights** Been doing a 3 day split. Mon, Thu, Sat. Mon - Back/Bi Thu - Chest /Tri Sat - Legs/Shoulders/Abs Going ok, last routine been doing 6 rep sets as you can see from my log. Not sure this has been best though. On the understanding I cant expect to use this for size/strength increases if Im only eating 2K cals per day. So, was thinking of changing to less weight more reps. Less rest between sets. I think.... I tend to train for 8 weeks then have a week rest. As Im suffering from man flu at the moment, Im classing this as my rest period. Hence, taking the time out to re-evaluate. Pics are Oct 07 and Mar 08. __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by JawD; 08-03-2008 at 10:34 AM.

08-03-2008, 11:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
Lux a bit mental Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tewkesbury Posts: 223	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Have you tried carb cycling mate? Also, try using a tape measure to indicate progress too. Maybe practice stomach vacums to enhance your midsection?? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-03-2008, 12:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
robbiedont www.robbiedont.com Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norwich UK Posts: 978	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested I'd be more worried about my pasty face and blue lips if I were you... __________________

08-03-2008, 02:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 713 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Thought Id add some basic questions to make it more straight forward : Looking at my images, would you say I was right to keep trying to loose the fat before worrying about adding mass? If thats the case, am I right to go for a higher rep range with less rest than worrying about a small rep range, heavier weight, longer rest? Im happy with my supps Diet : Assuming I should keep trying to burn the fat, would carb cycling be my next best step and if so, should I maybe aim for 2500 cals per day and cycle? For Carb cycling, Ive read about going Fibrous for 3 days and starchy for 3 days, Ive also read about going high, medium, low so wasnt sure if both were as good as each other etc I think Im right saying you keep your cals the same when cycling, some days you use fats for fuel and some days carbs. Low carb days you eat more fats? As ever, thanks for any input. Even just to point out my flat white face ;) __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-03-2008, 03:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
robbiedont www.robbiedont.com Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norwich UK Posts: 978	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested I reckon if you lost a bit of the fat you would have a pretty good body under there, you might find that once your a bit more cut you find it gives you a bit of a lift __________________

08-03-2008, 03:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
irwit is realising, diet, traing, rest, supplements, 12 egg breakfasts are nothing without consistency Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 402	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Id agree, Get a month of serious cardio and very strict diet in. Keep on the weights but plenty of cardio on off days. Id say you could put on half a stone of muscle on and not look much different but lose a stone of fat and youll look much better !

08-03-2008, 05:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 713 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Thanks for the comments folks, appreciate it. Think I'll do just that. Ill not carb cycle yet, but will keep it clean as Im trying. Bump up the cardio big time though then see what happens. So far the changes I think I'll do: Add a **** load of cardio each week (meaning add evening sessions after work as well as AM sessions on off days) Go back to a 8-10 rep range with less rest between sets, sticking to mainly compounds. Add Stomach Vacuum routine to workouts. Order up some calipers (anyone know a good source for these?) Cheers, __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-03-2008, 07:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
irwit is realising, diet, traing, rest, supplements, 12 egg breakfasts are nothing without consistency Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 402	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested amI going to sound like a noob here asking what a stomache vaccum routine is ?

08-03-2008, 08:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
wogihao Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,358	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested Well one solution if you want to lose the fat, why not workout more often? Put a few more sessions in a week and the weight will drop off you. Cardio is of limited value if you hate it because it will be a half-***d effort at best and honestly whats better having a fun session you enjoy or being bored to death on a stairmaster? If you add in more sessions gradualy your be able to up your callories and still keep your fat off because your energy requirement will be up. also theres hormonal giggerypokery going on when you train all these hormones are usefull to your weight loss. I will check out your journal and make further comments, just give me time After checking, it would apear there is very little work actualy going on in the workouts themselves this is fine if your doing say each bodypart 2x a week. but if your going to train the body part 1 time per week make it worth it. I know i will catch from flack for this but the reasion why many low volume guys are fat is because theres just not the energy expenditure to counter the callories from there diet and theres not the adaptive responce there to build muscle either. Increase the reps, increase the volume & keep your calloires the same you should see some positive change. Last edited by wogihao; 08-03-2008 at 08:39 PM.*

08-03-2008, 08:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 713 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested I dont mind cardio. I actually quite enjoy going for a run first thing, especially on the lighter mornings. Im moving house soon to a more rural area with loads of hills / fields nearby so Ill be in my element. Ive already got my eye on this big ass hill. Idea would be to run up and walk down a few times (for HIIT). At the moment, I tend to be in the gym 3 days a week and do cardio on its own 2-3 times per week. though now Ill try and make that 2-3 mornings per week cardio, 3 gym mornings and maybe another 2-3 evening cardio. __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-03-2008, 12:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
simeon69 should step on stage?? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: birmingham Posts: 337	Re: Update - Input, guidance, prodding requested congrates on the weight loss evident to see so obviously what your doing is working so why make it over complicated...? __________________ PAIN IS TEMPORARY FAILURE LASTS FOREVER!!