Tall

I'm curious as to why you think his protein levels would aid in recovery and stop over training ...?

Westside is fairly intense and so requires a fair amount of conditioning from memory - don't they say something like 3 years solid lifting...?

Volume training can be done by nattys, but they need to be conditioning upto that level of volume... And even then its not done for a long traing cycle - 6 weeks tops I think...

I'm sure Gironda had something to say about it somewhere...

Going back to the OP - as Bully said 2/3 days per week doing the basics. I personally wouldn't have a day just for shoulders...

ah24

Because muscle doesnt get over-trained easily - far from it.....aslong as it has enough protein to be able to recover and sifficient water (most forget muscle is around 70% water and 23% protein) around it and plenty of rest.

Its the CNS and PNS (Peripheral) that get over-trained - as I think I said in my last post?? - hence why I said de-loading periods are necassery.

Also, I haven't said volume training is optimum for him I'm just putting it out there that just because its more than what most guys on this board advise on it doesnt automatically mean you'll over-train.

Also just read it again....you said your curious how I think protein aids in recovery.....are you serious?!

Tall

I would have said the recovery was in the rest, not in the protein...

The presence of 'surplus' protein would only really ensure muscle growth, with the basal protein being required for muscle repair....?

shaz84

Hmm.. interesting debate guys. I always thought that nutrition part of the recovery as well...

On a side... DB - what is SLDL?

Tall

SLDL = Stiff Leg Deadlift

Nutrition plays an important part, but AH24, if I read him correctly, seemed to be placing surplus protein as the most important factor in recovery.

I recover better after a nice sleep not after a protein shake

But I was being mildly argumentative with him

ah24

Nope, if you want to grow & recover your going to need more protein than the average joe. (of course rest plays a huge part, dont get me wrong)


Don't forget proteins basic known roles are growth and repair....in everything. All bodily tissues. So it's not just a case of basal rate protein = muscle repair - it depends on what else is going on in the body, what else your doing etc.....

Which is probably why theres still no known optimum amount of protein for BBers.

Also, you say the presence of surplus protein would only ensure muscle growth - is that not the objective here?

shaz84

Okay scrap that question just googled it. cheers ;)

shaz84

whoa! quick replies!

ah24

If I remember correctly in my first post I used the word 'sufficient' nothing to do with surplus

Tall

I was focussing on your statement which purely referred to protein as the key aid to his recovery.

Nutrition and Rest I agree with.

For example one key factor in recovery for him would be to ensure by the next workout that his muscle glyogen levels were sufficiently full, and the most effective way to replenish his glyogen stores wouldn't be protein. While his protein levels are important its not quite that simple

Thus why High Volume routines are better suited for AAS users on a High Carb and High Protein diet IMHO - although given the right circumstances they could be used successfully by a natty.

ah24

LOL I think we know this is just you being picky I didn't really think I'd have to go into that much detail.

If you were going to start on that road - theres quite a few factors...like water, minerals (that make up the other 7% of muscle tissue), positive or negative nitrogen balance etc....

But I think your just getting into the nit-picking and losing track of the original point of the thread.

Tall

I'd say I was more clarifying what you meant to say as opposed to what you actually said...

But I also know you like volume training

ah24

Smart-ass!

In future rest assured that when replying to threads I'll take the time to go into full detail....

I have not said I like high volume, I've just said I'm experimenting with it and having positive results. It's just getting a bit boring the same posts shouting over-training as soon as someone goes a few sets over 'accepted' here.

Obviously theres some routines that really are a case of over-training but volume is also a form of over-load which people seem afraid of.

I used HIT the last year pretty much and have done really well on it, but now its time to try new methods, I was a bit weary over high volume with me being a natty but thought I'd give it a shot and hey....I feel great, I'm in the gym more which I like - and I've broke a plateu

Tall

Nothing wrong with volume training for nattys IMHO - provided they are at the correct level of conditioning, and the correct level of nutrition and rest is in place to allow recovery.

So it wouldn't be suitable for the OP who started training in September...

I've done 6 weeks of 'volume training' if you will. Some parts wiped me out - but chest and shoulders improved.

When I did intense volume training for legs however I was unable to recover correctly... Couldn't walk for a few days lets just say that

I've also seen people try GVT (AAS assisted...) and have to stop part way through the training cycle.

But as a 'general rule' Beginner to Intermediate trainees would seem to to have better progress on the 'basics' where the volume isn't to a huge level.

Plus most train trainees don't have the requirement of hitting the muscle from all angles as a competing bodybuilder would. Their training needs would be to ensure equal growth in all muscle areas as opposed to training to get the striations out - which in reality most will never see.

All IMHO. Some will agree. Some won't.

DB

Nice posting TH&S and AH24.. interesting veiws..

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