Fed Up!! - Page 2 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Chris4Pez · 09-12-2007, 02:45 PM

Agree with Paul and Wee G your body does need a sufficient amount of protein if your going to grow as if your body does not have proetin it needs your body is likely to go catabolic which means that your muscles will not grow in fact the opposite will happen!

Again though you have to watch that you are eating enough fats as well as carbs as again if you are not eating the correct amount of these in your diet then your body will use the protein which you eat as energy rather than a building block for muscle!

Its good to find a correct balance between all macros in the diet for both good health and good gains! I personally shoot for around 1 to 1.5g per lb of lean body weight (body weight minus body fat) and then make the rest up of carbs and health fats e.g Omega 3's etc

you may find this usful

Quote:

HOW TO GROW

Most people are frustrated with their lack of progress in bodybuilding. Here's a brief outline of my options/recommendations for how best to succeed.

TRAINING
------------
The best training method is dual-factor training. However, this is complicated, and in general for people with less than 2-3 years lifting experience who can't yet deadlift over twice their bodyweight, this is overkill. HUGE gains can be made on a simple single-factor low volume routine with progressive resistance for a long period of time for most people, without the need for dual-factor. Since the vast majority of people are in a chronically overtrained state, a brief deload period is required, followed by a two-day split intense training routine, such as this:

Mon
----
Flat Bench Press 2 x 8
Parallel Barbell Rows 2 x 8
Weighted Chins 2 x 8
Standing Military Press 2 x 8

Thurs
------
Back Squats ATF 2 x 8
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 2 x 8
Calf raise 2 x 10
Weighted ab crunch (hold dumbell on your chest) 2 x 10

These don't include warm-ups, of which you should do a few progressive sets that don't tire you out, but instead warm you up and get your CNS stimulated. Remember to stretch also. The exercise order and reps can be tweaked of course, but do NOT add in a bunch of isolation exercises. Isolation work is great for a 250lbs+ bodybuilder looking to bring up a weak body part, but for the average circa 200lbs lifter who wants to get huge, you don't need to "tone" your biceps with endless curls. You need serious exercises that pack on serious mass... that is compound work like deads and squats - so do NOT swap out squats for leg press or similar. And do NOT add extra volume, or do any "burn-out" sets to feel a pump. Feeling like you've worked a muscle is a false sense of progress. ALL that matters is that you're keeping form strict with full ROM and are adding weight to the bar each week.

Which brings me to the key to the success of this routine - progressive resistance. That is, continually adding small amounts of weight each week. To get bigger, you need to get stronger. Adding small weights each week add up. Adding 1-2kg/week to your squat won't seem to make much difference on a week-to-week basis, but over the course of a year, that's an extra 50-100kg (along with the extra mass to match). That's immense.

Start off with weights that are easy to hit the rep ranges, and load up from there. Be extremely conservative. Your first few weeks on this routine should be relatively easy. The slower you load, the longer you'll be able to load for.

Yes, you will plateau eventually. That is a given. It may be after 4 weeks, or it may be after 4 months+. As SOON as you plateau, you need to change things up. If something doesn't work from one session to the next, it will NOT suddenly start working in another week/month/year's time (with the exception of it just being a one-off bad workout). You can get past a plateau in many ways. Diet is the first thing that should be looked at (see below). Assuming this is good, a brief deload period, followed by a simple change to the program (such as changing the rep range and starting off light again before loading back up) is the next step. If this doesn't work, then an overhaul of the exercises is the next step. The main thing is: do NOT stick with something that isn't working today.

DIET
------
Quite simply, it's all about protein. To grow, you need protein, and lots of it. If you're not growing, assuming your training is effective (i.e. you're still gaining strength), then you're not eating enough protein. If you're 200lbs and want to get to 250lbs+, you need to eat like a 250lbs+ bodybuilder.

You get a lot of 160-180lbs fitness enthusiasts telling you that you don't need large amounts of protein to grow, but look at any seriously huge bodybuilder - the vast majority of them (if not all of them) are pounding down the protein.

Try it. Assuming you're around 200lbs and want to grow, shoot for 400g of protein a day and see what happens.

How do you eat that much protein? From as much whole food as possible, but let's face it, you're unlikely to be able to eat well over a kg of meat amongst other food without hitting the protein shakes. The main thing is to get the protein down you. If that means downing a protein shake with every meal to bump up your protein intake, then so be it.

What about fats and carbs? There are certain amounts of essential fats you need in your diet. These can be obtained from fish oils. As for essential carbs, there are none (arguably aside from post-workout.. see below). Eat carbs depending on your body type. A raging ectomorph will need more carbs than a carb-sensitive endomorph at the same protein level. Green veggies are useful for vitamins and minerals, but let's face it, when you're pounding down the protein, it can be hard to chow down on a ton of veggies too, so just hit a multi-vitamin if you prefer.

Water. Drink as much of it as you can. Keep a bottle of water with you whenever possible, and sip it all day long. Keeping hydrated at all times is vital.

Post-workout nutrition is imperative. You need protein and carbs as soon as possible after workout. The protein for muscle growth, and the carbs to replenish the glycogen depleted from your workout. An ideal ratio for a 200lbs bodybuilder is 60g of protein and 80g of fast-acting carbs (usually dextrose or maltodextrin). Adjust these quantities in the same ratios depending on your size.

SUPPLEMENTS
-----------------
Very few actually work and as a rule, if in doubt, save your money. With the absense of enough vitamins and minerals in your diet, a multi-vitamin tablet is useful. Creatine is also a useful supplement, particularly if there aren't enough red meats in your diet. Other than that, use whatever money you were about to spend on the latest "get big quick" supplement fad and buy a nice juicy steak instead.

GEAR
-------
Keep it simple. If it's your first cycle, just run a single compound, preferably test enanthate, along with a faster acting drug to kickstart the cycle and to bring you into PCT. Nolva should also be run in low-dose during cycle to help prevent gyno. An example first cycle may look something like this:

1-10 Test Enan 500mg EW
1-4 Dianabol 40mg ED
9-12 Dianabol 40mg ED
1-12 Nolva 10-20mg ED

PCT should be run in the following manner after your cycle:
1-2 Clomid 100mg ED
3-4 Clomid 50mg ED
1-3 Nolva 40mg ED
4 Nolva 20mg ED

It is imperative that your diet and training are spot-on for the best results from your cycle. If these are not good enough, you will just be wasting your money and time, and risking your body unnecessarily.

After this kind of simple first cycle, you will learn how your body responds to moderate dose test, how easy you recover, and how you're affected by sides. This will leave you in a better position to add extra substances in future cycles. A second cycle would typically be the same as above, but adding in a second compound - such as EQ, Deca or Tren. These work nicely with test.

Subsequent cycles could see you increasing doses further if necessary, or adding in more exotic drugs, such as GH. But at the end of the day, a HUGE amount of mass has been built with simple moderate dose test/tren cycles for a fraction of the price of these more exotic cycles. My opinion is to stick to the basic cheap mass building drugs until you exhaust all of your gains from them.

Time off between cycles is up to you. I would recommend a minimum of 4 weeks clean after PCT. The shorter your time off, the greater the muscle gains, as you'll be on cycle more often, but also the greater the risks. It depends whether you want to be big or safe. Bottom line: if you really want to be 100% safe, don't do steroids at all.

It is a sensible idea to get blood levels checked regularly, particularly if you run high dose cycles and/or have any medical conditions. Failing this, get your baseline test levels before you do your first cycle.

Follow these recommendations, and I am convinced that you will no longer be disappointed with your bodybuilding progress.

Post originally by BIG

ah24 · 09-12-2007, 03:32 PM

IMO.

If your mesomorph - 1.2g/lb bodyweight
Ectomorph - 1.5 - 1.75 per lb

**Pscarb** · 09-12-2007, 05:04 PM

no one person has one bodytype people have a mix of the bodytypes so you could be 40%Ecto and 60% Meso

Val101 · 09-12-2007, 05:16 PM

thanks for all the adivce guys, i guess protein intake is gonna be down to trial and error, i think i'll start with around 200g per day, if i see good results i'll keep adding to it to a max of 300g per day, but if i start to get fat then i'll knock it back down.

thanks again

Five-O · 09-12-2007, 06:08 PM

I think high protein consumption is overated, as a rule of thumb a min of 30g per meal, I place more importance on quality carbs and good fats.

Ive read of ppl going upto 400g per day which equates to 400 x 4 = 1600 kcals in protein alone, now thats some calories to take in on just protein alone IMO.

DaPs · 09-12-2007, 06:35 PM

There is approximately 30g of protein in 100g of chicken, one big steak wouldn't have 160g of protein in it, it'd have to be one hell of a steak to have that much protein in it.

**hackskii** · 09-12-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

I think high protein consumption is overated, as a rule of thumb a min of 30g per meal, I place more importance on quality carbs and good fats.

Ive read of ppl going upto 400g per day which equates to 400 x 4 = 1600 kcals in protein alone, now thats some calories to take in on just protein alone IMO.

Agreed, I think prople eat too much protein myself.
Problem in doing so the body then uses enzymes to metabolize protein, the more the protein for prolonged periods of time the more enzymes and the body then becomes efficient at using protein or needing more.

It is like drinking a beer, if you never drink a beer it might give you a buzz.
If you drink every day then it takes more. This has to do with enzymes and the bodies ability to tollerate and use alcohol.
There are some pretty good sources on protein cycling.
It pretty much is the same with protein.
You probably would see some gains by adding more, but then that would stop, the body is opposed to anabolism as this raises the requirement for macro's across the board.
Once you had very high protein consumption for long periods of time and you stop or cut that, the body then goes catabolic.

I think using too much protein tells the body to use this as fuel, protein is the least efficient source of fuel of any other macro.
I would think it best to get the fats and carbs down to allow sufficient fuel for energy, then the protein is based on recouperation.
After all if a man is 200 lbs and is 30% bodyfat, eating 200 grams a day only to support 140 pounds of muscle is not right.

**Pscarb** · 09-12-2007, 09:26 PM

i know from personel experiance that low protein consumption for me does not build muscle i have used many different approaches both off season and pre-comp....

you need to find what is best for you as an individual and stick with that...

it also needs to be remembered that the body uses more calories breaking down and using protein than it does both carbs and fats....

**hackskii** · 10-12-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

i know from personel experiance that low protein consumption for me does not build muscle i have used many different approaches both off season and pre-comp....

you need to find what is best for you as an individual and stick with that...

it also needs to be remembered that the body uses more calories breaking down and using protein than it does both carbs and fats....

Totally agree.
There is more protein requirement for those that hold more lean muscle mass, than those with less muscle mass.
Even more for those that do resistance training.

Finding where you are at is something that you need to figure out yourself.
Many variables.

09-12-2007, 03:32 PM	#17 (permalink)
ah24 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: crawley Posts: 2,761	Re: Fed Up!! IMO. If your mesomorph - 1.2g/lb bodyweight Ectomorph - 1.5 - 1.75 per lb

09-12-2007, 05:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,524	Re: Fed Up!! no one person has one bodytype people have a mix of the bodytypes so you could be 40%Ecto and 60% Meso __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Admin at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Sponsored by Extreme Nutrition - Almost an unfair advantage

09-12-2007, 05:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
Val101 Newbie Trainer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6	Re: Fed Up!! thanks for all the adivce guys, i guess protein intake is gonna be down to trial and error, i think i'll start with around 200g per day, if i see good results i'll keep adding to it to a max of 300g per day, but if i start to get fat then i'll knock it back down. thanks again

09-12-2007, 06:08 PM	#20 (permalink)
Five-O aka Jimmy Join Date: May 2006 Location: Barnsley Posts: 4,044	Re: Fed Up!! I think high protein consumption is overated, as a rule of thumb a min of 30g per meal, I place more importance on quality carbs and good fats. Ive read of ppl going upto 400g per day which equates to 400 x 4 = 1600 kcals in protein alone, now thats some calories to take in on just protein alone IMO. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-12-2007, 06:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
DaPs Getting HUGE. Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,281	Re: Fed Up!! There is approximately 30g of protein in 100g of chicken, one big steak wouldn't have 160g of protein in it, it'd have to be one hell of a steak to have that much protein in it.

09-12-2007, 09:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,524	Re: Fed Up!! i know from personel experiance that low protein consumption for me does not build muscle i have used many different approaches both off season and pre-comp.... you need to find what is best for you as an individual and stick with that... it also needs to be remembered that the body uses more calories breaking down and using protein than it does both carbs and fats.... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Admin at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Sponsored by Extreme Nutrition - Almost an unfair advantage

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