NHB

Hey! I just joined the forum, and I'm looking for some advice.

First off, I just wanna say that this is the best place I've seen for information on ANYTHING to do with exercise or health. I've read some good stuff here (even though I'm terrible with the search function) just wanna say thanks.

However, I want to start a new routine. I've been training on and off for a year now, and now I'm just starting to get really dedicated. I've done some reading on overtraining, and I'm pretty sure thats what I've been doing for a while. First, this is what I used for a routine:

Chest day
Arm day
Shoulders/back day
Legs day

After that, I'd take a 2 day break. This is more of a bodybuilding routine, and I'm not training specifically for mass, mainly for strength and power, but still some mass as well. I'm also looking to lose fat. I don't need to get completely ripped, but I am looking for some definition. For example, I wouldn't mind being a little puffy, as long as I still have some definition. Anyways, with the above routine, I would do 5-6 exercises a day, each with 4 sets of 15 reps. I was told high reps were best for losing fat, but then I found out this was a myth. Even if it does help, I don't want to sacrafice any strength just to lose weight quicker.

While I was using this routine, I was only taking 100% Whey Protein powder. From the research I did, this is considered overtraining. To be honest, I was very sore, and I wasn't making the best gains.

Along with a new program, I'm interested in taking some more supplements. I'm not interested in steroids though, just things like protein powder, Creatine (still not sure about this stuff, too many different opinions) and L-Glutamine. Don't worry, I'll ask about those in the Supplemenation section.

I'm on a pretty strict diet right now too. I usually have some cereal and a protein shake for breakfast, a sandwich with fruit or vegetable for lunch, and for supper I usually have a slab of lean meat with a vegatable and some rye bread. I usually hit the gym at 3:00 p.m, then go home and drink a shake and have supper. This diet is mainly for fat loss, but I'm not sure if I'm getting enough carbs or energy to work out in the gym. Also, I still have to find out how to incorporate the supplements I'm interested in to my diet. Again, I'll look for those answers in the Supplementation section.

Right now, I just wanna look for a good routine. Like I said, I want to lose fat, but I'm in no immediate hurry. I want to gain muscle mass, but most importantly gain as much strength and power as possible. Specifically, I'm training in MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) and I'm not sure how to organize a routine for this. I've heard 3 days on, 1 day off is good, also 2 days on, 1 day off. I'm not sure, I'm terrible at doing research.

All I'm looking for here is the general routine. I can put together the specific exercises for each day. I just need a layout. What would you recommend for me? What would be classified as overtraining if I am taking 100% whey protein, creatine, and L-glutamine? How often should I use the stripping method or supersets? I'm just lost when it comes to stuff like that.

As for aerobic exercise, I would think that 30 mins after every workout should do it, along with and stuff I do during my MMA training.

That pretty much sums up what I'm looking for. Sorry if it was long and a waste of your time, I just need some help and this forum is full of wicked smart people. For those of you who take the time to read this and post a useful reply, thanks a lot!

P.S. For your info, I'm 16, just over 5'11, and about 178 lbs right now (with some fat to lose). I don't know if this needs to be taken into consideration.

I'm looking forward to learning more from this forum.
-NHB

SportDr

Hey welcome,

You have a great attitude and a very mature and refreshing approach for a 16 year old!

You have asked some great questions in the right way in the right sections, probably the best first post I have seen!! You have even provided plenty of relevant details.

I have to go to work so I can't give you any answers right now, I want to do your post justice, although by the tiem I get back I have no doubt you will have most of the answers you need, I will try later, from my own MA background though I recommend Plyometrics incorporated into your training, but more on that later.

Look forward to speaking with you soon

SD

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Nine Pack

Sport Dr is right there, a power based programme will suit you far more. You ought not to be training like a bodybuilder. The traditional approach of hitting each bodypart seperately is not in you best interests. You need to be concerned with integrated movement patterns. Take a look at an anatomy chart & see how the fibres of different muscle groups on opposite sides of the midline seem to be aligned. This is no coincidence. The body is designed as a kintetic chain with muscle groups working together in intricate patterns (sometimes called 'slings') to make the most efficient movements possible. Also, you will need far more endurance & explosive speed than a bodybuilder so consider this when putting the programme together. I don't know where you are based, but I have a client who's brother own's one of the best MMA gyms in the UK and is extremely well known in the sport. He would be someone worth talking to.

In truth, training like a bodybuilder will get the best 'looking in the mirror' results, but it is not for everyone accross the board.

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''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

NHB

This is exactly why I joined this forum. Instant replys from people who know what they're talking about. Thanks so much.

SportDr, thank you for your reply. I'm very excited to learn more from you. I can't wait to start training hard.

Nine Pack, thanks for your reply as well. I agree with you and SportDr that a powerbased program would be best. That's mainly why I wanted to get some help. I do have a little extra fat that I'd like to burn off as well, but I'm sure that will come with hard training and strict dieting.

I'd like to talk to your client's brother, but unfortunately I live in Canada. I'd go to the UK but I gotta stay and take care of the igloo, right? Haha. However, there are some great Mixed Martial Artists around here too, so hopefully I can get in contact with them.

Thanks again for your replys.
-NHB

NHB

I was also looking for some advice on a general diet that I should follow with respect to my situation and goals. I read some threads on diets, and I heard that its impossible to gain strength and muscle while losing fat. I hope this isn't completely true. I really wanna lose fat but I don't want to sacrafice strength/power gains. Like I said, I mainly wanna go for strength and power but I'd like to see some gains in mass too, but I'm sure that will just come with a strength/power routine.

However, UK-Muscle Moderator, big, has some posts that negate the belief that you can't gain strength/mass while losing (at least) some fat. I messaged him, and he told me that both of your guys' information would be great.

If anyone could help me with a diet that would account for strength/power gains, as well as losing some fat, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks big time.
-NHB

Nine Pack

Losing bodyfat & gaining muscle at the same time is a difficult knife edge thing to try & do, especially if you are natural. In order to coax the body into utilising fat stores, there needs to be a general calorie defecit and under these conditions, the body has not got sufficient reserve to build new tissue. when I prepare for a show, I just accept the fact that it's purely down to retaining as much muscle as possible during the dieting phase.

The good news however, is that because of your age, your body is producing a lot of natural growth hormone so you may well be able to do this if the diet is pitched right. Without knowing your weight & current diet it is difficult to construct a diet to suit.

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''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

NHB

At the moment, I am 5'11, 177 lbs. If I were to guess how much I'd weigh without fat, it would probably be around 165 or more.

As for my diet, right now it's fairly strict. No fast foods whatsoever, no junk food. Nothing that's going to turn into fat. I don't have an exact list of the things I eat, but all I try to do is cover the main food groups, and make sure I'm getting most of my daily intake.

Yesterday I bought some Creatine monohydrate and L-Glutamine, and I'm still researching how to incorporate them into my diet before I use any. When I was buying the supplements, the guy at the counter said I should be taking a good multivitamine with Creatine and L-Glutamine. I currently do take one, but its just a cheap one. He explained that I'd need one with more vitamine G (I think, don't remember exactly) because it helps you to metabolise carbs for energy better. He said that the one I'm taking probably has no more than 5 mg of this vitamine, whereas a better multivitamine would have 30-50 mgs. I looked at my multivitamine and it doesn't have any of this vitamine, haha. Do you recommend I get some new stuff? Or was the guy just trying to sell me a product?

Sorry about not giving this information before, just forgot about it.

Thanks for your reply man.

P.S. Before one of your shows, is it true your at your weakest? I heard you guys have to dehydrate yourselves to the point where if you go any longer you'd be dead. Is it really that extreme?

Nine Pack

I think the guy at the shop was referring to vitamin B there bud. I'd get yourself a good brand that separates the daily dosage into two or more packs. This is because certain vitamins & minerals will adversely affect the absorption of others.

Everyone on here knows which brand I use by now so I won't go there but get one well above the RDA's & don't go for a budget make.


As regards my physical state before a show, yes I am as weak as a kitten and feel like I am made of glass, very fragile. The drying out process is not what you would call dehydration, it's more of a water manipulation technique. we try to reduce sub cutaneous water as much as possible in the final hours before the show, but not at the expense of all fluid, as the muscles will look flat & spongy if they get dehydrated. The body stores water in 'compartments'; sub cutaneous (extracelluar), inside the muscles (intracellular), and in the bloodstream. We have ways of reducing one compartment & sparing the others. It's a difficult thing to time right as the body will fight the change after a short while to get back to normal, but it is possible to stay looking 'shrink wrapped' for about 12-24 hours.
Some guys have gotten in real serious trouble when they overdo it & place too much stress on the kidneys so it carries some risk, even without diuretic aids.

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''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

NHB

Yeah I think it was vitamine B, thats it. When you say to get a dosage that is separated into two or more packs, do you mean that the vitamines should have different kinds for different parts of the day? Also, whats RDA's?

I'll probably just look at your posts and try to find your brand, haha.

Thanks again for your help bud, have a good one.
-NHB

Nine Pack

RDA's simply mean reccomeded daily allowance. They are woefully inadequate for anyone under hard training or regular physical activity.

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''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

NHB

Ohhh, ok. Sorry about the stupid question, I should have known that.

Thanks bud.
-NHB

SportDr

For more info on RDA's look here

SD

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NHB

Sweet deal, thanks SportDr. I'll go pick up a good brand of multi-vitamine ASAP. ODA is the way to go.

Thanks once again
-NHB

SportDr

Whenever I have trained new people in the sport, I recommend an all body programme practised 3 times per week maximum. Each session should not take more than 1 hour to complete. This will prevent overtraining and give ample recovery with moderate gains.

I do not recommend any Isolation training i.e Bicep Curls, until your tendons are stronger, training 3-6 months but instead a programme focused on compound exercises.

Heres an example of compound exercises with alternative exercises after each / just in case your gym doesn't have the right equipment.

LEGS: Squats/Leg Press/Lunges/Reverse Lunges
CHEST/Triceps: Incline Press/Cable Flys High,Middle,Low/Smith Press/Seated Chest Press
BACK/Biceps: Bent over Rows/Pulldowns/PullUps/Straight Leg Deadlifts (SLDL)/Deadlifts
SHOULDERS: Clean and Press/Overhead Smith Press/Dumbell Lateral Raises.
Abdominals:Abs aren't a necessity as they are worked in most of these exercises but core development is essential. There is loads of info on the net regarding core work.
ROTATOR CUFF: Rotator cuff work now will prevent injury in the future, rushing into big weights without the foundational strength in your core or your RC's will lead to injury.
Calf Work: Like abs, they are worked already, but unlike other smaller muscles in your arms they can take a real pounding, so are worth putting in once or twice a week.

Warm ups are essential, no more than 5 minutes cardio is necessary plus a warm up set speciific to the exercsie you are about to perform. Flexibiliy is essential to your MMA training but also to prevent muscle imbalances and tightness that can cause injury or throw off technique.

Do ONE exercise from each section per workout and rotate them, for example only:

Monday
Warm up
Lunges
Incline Press
Deadlifts
Clean & Press
CORE & RC WORK
Flexibility

Tuesday
Aerobic Exercise

Wednesday
Warm up
Squats
Smith Press
SLDL
Overhead Smith Press
Calf Raises
CORE & RC WORK
Flexibility

Thursday
Aerobic Exercise

Friday
Warm up
Leg Press
Cable Flys High/Medium/Low
Bent Over Rows
Dumbell Lateral Raises
CORE & RC WORK
Flexibility

Saturday
Light Aerobic Exercise

Sunday
Complete Rest

This is an example 'Microcycle' and it will give you the 'Foundation'. You must do this without faltering or swapping around to the latest muscle mag programme, give it time to work.

Exercises need to be explosive, allow the weight to descend over 3-4 seconds, then power it up in less than 2, and in a rep range of 12-15, performing 3 sets of each, a warm up set, a moderate set and one heavy set to 'form failure'.

DO NOT PERFORM ANY OF THE EXERCISES WITHOUT INSTRUCTION AND NO I DONT MEAN THE FORUM OR THE INTERNET.

Every 4 weeks I would cycle on and off 4 weeks of Plyometric training(do a search). So I would swap out one or two weights session for Plyometrics for 4 weeks, then just do weights/Aerobics for four weeks.

This gives you all the pointers you need to construct your own programme, if there are points that need clarification and you cant find the answers by searching here just ask.

hth

SD

NOTE: THE ABOVE PROGRAMME IS SUITABLE FOR A NEW WEIGHT TRAINER WITH A MMA BACKGROUND SEEKING TO INCREASE EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH AND INCREASE FITNESS ONLY. THIS PROGRAMME MAY NOT BE SUITABLE FOR YOU THE READER SO PLEASE CONSULT A FITNESS PROFESSIONAL IF IN DOUBT.

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NHB

TTT!

Once again, an incredible post by SportDr. ANYONE that is an MMA practitioner should read this.

I can't wait to start this program next week.

Thanks again man, have a good one.
-NHB