ChicagoUSA

I've been reading here and there and am new to ALL this. I know I have to get a stable steady diet set; then start pulling together a workout routine (I am told the best way to start out is with mulitple compound excersizes) and finally get my ass working. Am I missing anything while I am pulling this all together?

My goal is strength, lean muscle mass to improve what hides under my clothes. I don't want to gain tons of weight but rather lean muscle mass. I don't plan on competing in anyway, but who knows that may change as I get into this.

Wanted to drop a line to say hi and all comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Chris.

hackskii

This is my friend Chris from the States.
I directed him here from another board for a more personal help.

Chris many guys on this board are good lads with great knowledge, many of them compete.
You will like it here, guys help and wont flame you.

__________________
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin


Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

steveg

hi and welcome. If you need help, the people here are friendly and helpful, all you have to do is ask

ChicagoUSA

Thanks for the welcome. Hack has gotten me started down a path that I hope I can follow. He has me on a pretty strict diet to get started and some simple compound excersizes to build some mass to work with. I don't have much mass to work with at this point.

I've been reading around but haven't posted much because, I don't have anything that I can add that you all don't already know.

So let me have it. Work out routines, supps, accessories (belts, gloves) and whatever else you think I need to be successful.

Hope to talk to more of you.

Chris


PS If anyone know someone in Chicago that would like a training partner, I sure could use one. I would benefit from someone more experienced to monitor form and someone to motivate me to push harder. PM if you know of anyone. Thanks.

big

Welcome dude

__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nine Pack

You have a good mentor in Hack. He knows his stuff, and there's always someone on here that knows what you need to know. I've recently advised Hack on his diet, that's my main passion, and HIT training methods. I've got Hack on a high intensity, 'stay the hell out of the gym' program right now! Only joking, he's taking a week out to recuperate from what seems like overtraining so he can hit the gym with a fresh body & new regime next week.

ChicagoUSA

Thanks Nine. Yeah Hack mentioned that he was banned from the gym for being a bad boy and overtraining. He's got me on a diet that is soooo much food that it is hard to get it all down each day. My biggest problem is HOW DO YOU DRINK A GALLON OF WATER A DAY!! I came close one day at 3.5 quarts. I just couldn't get that last bit down I was so bloated. I told Hack that either the diet is working or I was so stuffed that my gut was firm because of all the food crammed in there. If you have any tips on diet, I am all ears.

I've also read a lot about supps that some people are using. One person said that they got dehydrated from the supp so drinking that much was no problem. What if any supps should I add to the diet.

I am going tonite to get my BF measured (not sure the calipers will stretch that far) and the rest of my body parts measured. Hack wants a before an after profile. I am also getting with a trainer to make sure that I have proper form for everything Hack wants me to do. He hasn't really defined a routine yet. He's just thrown out some routines that he does but nothing really tailored to me. I'm sure its coming though. His daughter is really really sick so he is more focused on her than anything else right now.

Too bad you said to ask questions because I am a question kind of person. I absorb information like a sponge and then some. I have to know everything and the sooner I get it the more I retain. Long slow teachings don't do me any good, plus I am a very impatient person. I want results like yesterday and build from there.

Sorry for the long post. Good to meet you and I'm sure I'll be asking more in the future.

Chris

Nine Pack

Think of supplements merely as conveinient forms of food. All I would suggest anybody really needs is:
1) A quality protein supplement providing slow & fast release proteins, not just whey.
2) A high strength multivitamin/mineral formula
3) An essential fatty acid supplement (Udo's, Pro Lipid etc)
4) At a push, some form of joint/connective tissue supplement like glucosamine & chondroitin, but if the EFA's are high, this is not crucial, but won't do any harm.

After that, there's all the other stuff, Creatine, Glutamine, Nox etc that will all help but at this stage, keep it as simple as possible so you can see how you respond to optimal nutrition. Not only that, it will be a darn sight cheaper.

Scott,
I hope your daughter is on the mend. Perhaps a good time for you to be out of the gym, or then again, maybe not.

hackskii

Yah, Chris is pretty motivated, he wants it right now. Not a bad thing. He did send me some pictures of himself.
He is rather tall and can use a bit of mass.

That gallon of water I actually didnt suggest I suggested a gallon of ice water burned about 150 calories.

Chris is basicly looking to gain some lean muscle and drop some body fat.
It is something that a new guy in the gym can actually achieve.
Being fresh in the gym one can have fantastic gains.
This is why I want him to do basic compound exercises.

I think Chris is the same age as you Paul.
38 right Chris?

For the supps, I prefere fish oils over Udo's, I hope this does not start a debate on EFA's
Most people get enough Omega 6's in their diets in fact for the most part get too many 6's so the ratio of 3 to 6 is a bit off. This increases inflammation and can have its own set of problems.

Anyway, I did suggest Chris to eat 6 meals a day but not huge meals.
When I looked at his diet it just didnt seem like any kind of volume, some where around 1600 calories (at a glance).

But Paul is better to give you a routine over me and Big as well, seems I probably did'nt have it right as a result of overtraining (Or I am just gettin old).

Chris, you can ask all the questions you want right here in your own personal thread. All the information will be right here for you to reflect back on and accessable from any computer.
Some times I store stuff her so I know right where to find it.

As above, supps, creatine, fish oils, multiple vitamin/mineral supplement would do nicely.

Did you get that personal trainer to show you the basic compound exercises?
Did he watch your form and give you advice?

__________________
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin


Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ChicagoUSA

No, the trainer thing is tonite. I told him what you wanted and he said no problem. I have to tinker with the diet. I think I am eating to much now and putting on weight I don't need.

Big, what do you recommend for diet. I'm 5'10 and currently 165lbs. I should be at 150lbs for my body form. I had a whole year where I couldn't get to the gym because I was working 7 days a week and had no energy to get there, so I am trying to make up for lost time.

I read somewhere else about the water and I know I have been dehydrated for the better part of the last year so I've been trying to keep it up as high as possible. I have all the supps you recommend other than the creatine and protein powder. Recommendations on both?

I so far am responding pretty well to Hacks training recommendations, I can see a difference that wasn't there before. It is leaning out that is kind of top priority right now, then bulking up to where I would like to be.

Hack says you guys are the best and I trust his judgment so let me have it.

Thanks guys!

Chris

PS I am pretty athletically endowed so I hope this new lifting thing fits into that. But, my dad worked on a farm for years and he had no bulk (muscle) to show after 10 years. I am genetically predisposed to be thin, but with a desk job, the over 35 beer belly has grown. Yes, I am 38 as well. I play basketball with kids half my age and they don't believe me when I tell them I am twice their age. I am pretty fast, mobile and agile. At one point, I could almost dunk the ball, and then I wrecked my knees skiing. So much for life long dream of dunking on somebody. Sorry if I ask too many questions but like I said, I am like a sponge and absorb new information which eventually leads to more questions.

Nine Pack

I know you asked Big, and he'll probably let you have his advice too, but diet is my thing & I can waffle ad infinitum all day on the subject. I'd suggest feeding your lean weight only. Put your protein at 200g, carbs at 300g & let daily variations in meat sources see fats fluctuate between 50-80g a day. This will equate to 2450-2720 cals a day. Split this over 6 meals, allowing for a post workout shake of some simple carbs & hydrolised whey making seven 'meals' in total.
It's better to be a little conservative at first with the cals as it's easier to crank them up a notch than have to start losing bodyfat gained un-necessarily. I won't stick my oar in on the training as it's unfair to your PT, and being a PT myself I know it can be annoying. If you feel the program you are given is not quite right though, just ask. Some PT's are better than others.......

ChicagoUSA

I'm only using a trainer for form and to make sure I don't hurt myself. He knows this is a one shot deal and is just looking after the afore-mentioned form and proper use of the equipment. Hack is calling the shots at this point. I need to just make my meals smaller. I think I am making them too large and that is the problem. What do you recommend as a good starter. The problem I have is getting a fat and carb into most meals because Hack won't let me go near bread and I hate oatmeal. Opine away.

As I told Hack, I am putty in your hands mold away. I am trying my best to do as he says, but he trusts you guys for imput so, tell me what you think.

Chris

PS Sorry I got you two mixed up. That was my fault. So, the question was more posed to you than Big. He can help on the routine side.

Nine Pack

I'd just add fats in the form of Udo's, flax seeds, hempseed oil, fish oils or whatever yanks your chain, try to get oily fish three times a week too. Carb wise, wholewheat pasta is fine unless dieting for a show, wholegrain brown rice, sweet potatoes, yams (real yams) and a little bit of fruit in moderation will be ok. I'm going to let slip a little secret here. Look at my avatar......I have wholemeal bread periodically through my pre contest prep, and stop it about two weeks out. Does'nt seem to have done any harm! If it's eaten with some clean fats to slow the absorbtion it's not as evil as is sometimes thought. Besides, if you cut it out altogether as I used to, you may find yourself getting cravings for bread products that are definately off the menu.
I remember once walking through the bakery section of my local supermarket in a carb depleted trance. My wife turned round to see why I was lagging behind & found me eyes welling up & sobbing. This was a new personal low for me. This was an extreme, but if we can stem the cravings with a cleaner source of bread then you will be fine. I'll get Hack on bread soon, he's admitted to being carb phobic and is undergoing 'therapy' in the form of oatmeal for breakfast & supper. He's losing bodyfat too.

Can't believe you hate oatmeal. I flavour it with a bit of Pro Peptide, or cinnamon & nutmeg. In the offseason, I frequently put cashew nut butter in too. It's easily the best meal of the day, that's why I have it twice.

ChicagoUSA

So I did the PT thing last night. Hack is right I need to add mass but it seems right now that all my mass is located in one spot. You guessed it the gut. I used to be a 32" waist but am upto 35" according to him but that can't be correct because I am wearing 32" waist pants now and I didn't have to lie down to get them on. He was surprised at the weight I could lift though. From memory (I lost the sheet he gave me but is going to fax another one today) I benched 180, leg press 290, lat 110, should press somewhere just over 100. For a skinny little think he was kind of impressed. When we went to do leg press he started at 140 and I told him waste of time jump it to at least 200 to start. He looked at me like you got to be kidding me. This exercise took the longest because he get upping the weight 20lbs at a time. It took forever for me to get to a point where I said 5 reps at this weight is max.

He took all the other measurements which I'll post after I get them but I do remember the BF count. 18%BF not as bad as I thought but certainly not where I want to be. We discussed diet and he kind of agreed with me that that the diet Hack proposed is the way to go but its too much for me. He suggested dropping back from 2000 to 1500 calories a day. I gained 3lbs in a week and wasn't of the good variety.

Ok, so you have to promise me something. When I post all my numbers, no one gets to laugh. We all have to start somewhere and like I said I was predisposed to a thin frame. Although I did notice that my arm mearuements where higher than anticipated and my leg measurements were lower than anticipated. Go figure.

That said. Suggestions on diet to lower it a little and round it out a little. I'll try, seriously, to add the oatmeal to the mix if we can come up witha modified diet. Problem is I have a desk job so eating so much just sits there and I have no calory output. If I had a manual labor job then, none of this would be a problem.

Chris.

Nine Pack

1500 cals a day???, you've gotta be kidding! Chris, IMO this is waaaay off. All that's going to happen is that your body will go into catabolic shock & hang on to fat stores for dear life. So many PT's dish out uneducated diet advice that simply consists of 'eat less' if the client has too much bodyfat. It's the current nutritional environment that has created the metabolic state in the first place that led to the accumulation of fat. So why dip calories even more & make it worse? This is what I'll tell my clients, think of your metabolic rate as a waterwheel & clean meals as the water. Now ask yourself how's best to keep the wheel spinning? An irregular flow of food, a small trickle, or regular, substantial clean meals in conjunction with exercise? It ain't rocket science, but so many PT's know squat about nutrition and I get mad when they decide they are in a position to dish out advice. For the record, I am a registered nutritional advisor as well as PT.

Your initial weight gain is a transition period. there will be a brief stage before the metabolism has sped up, where the increase in cals is handled by the body by storing a little fat. This is where most people will panic & either bail completely or reduce cals down to starvation levels.

It's up to you, but I have clients come to me in a similar position, and I nearly always increase their calories. Sounds crazy I know, but spread over the day the body will become more efficient at utilising those cals. with the low cal approach, it will see every single calorie ingested as precious so will hang on to it. Your metabolism will just crash to allow you to survive on such a low intake.

I had a client who came to me wanting to lose fat & not really get big, but just look athletic. After reviewing his food diary it became apparent he was taking an average of 1300 cals a day on board, sedentary job like you. I was not surprised, but he sure as hell was when I upped it to 2500 cals in conjunction with 30 mins pre breakfast cardio five days a week & a one on, one off weights program. He was naturally aprehensive but gave me the benefit of the doubt. Long story short, six months later his bodyfat is down from 19% to 8%, total net weight loss just 7lbs. His body composition has changed beyond recognition, hence the low net weight loss. He now has a cracking set of delts & arms which he loves showing off so wears a vest even when it's freezing, abs clearly visible for the 1st time in his life. On a secondary note, this guy is a 57 year old grandather by the way.

It's better to put more in & burn more out the other end than restrict calories. The human body is a remarkable adaptive organism that can survive well when food is scarce. It's for this reason we are at the top of the food chain. If you want the body to use up it's precious fat reserves, give it signals that food is plentiful, and that it needs to become more efficient at using the nutrients (via exercise). We are in essence creating a slightly artificial environment here, but it's a lifestyle & a look that we adopt because we like it so what the hell.