Training muscles once a week? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

JFallon · 11-10-2006, 10:54 AM

From what I've read here, most of you guys hit each muscle only once a week, is this because you are more experienced and bigger? Many people say that a muscle has fully recovered after 3 days so you can train them twice a week, is there any reason why you bigger guys don't train each muscle twice a week?
Thanks.

**big** · 11-10-2006, 11:15 AM

Nobody can say a muscle is recovered after 3 days, because it depends on genetics, volume and intensity.

Do 1 set of 3 with 50% of your 1RM and you'll be recovered within a matter of hours (probably minutes actually). You could do 1 set of 3 with 50% every day of the week for the next 10 years and you would NOT overtrain. Therefore the muscle is recovering much faster than 3 days.

Do 10 sets of 3 with 90-95% of your 1RM on squats or deads, and then tell me how many more times you'll be able to do that 3 days later. The answer is probably not many before you burn-out completely. It would take a whole lot longer to recover from - probably several weeks, as most of those sets would be to/near failure.

You HAVE to get away from this idea that a muscle needs to be fully recovered before you can retrain it. That is NOT optimal. That is bodybuilding bull**** and one of several reasons why most people fail at bodybuilding.

You need to have volume loading phases, deloading phases and intensity phases for the best results.

The guys who are bodybuilding and hitting a muscle group once a week GENERALLY struggle to gain mass and strength and are typically repeating workouts over and over, effectively banging their head against a brick wall and hoping they'll break it down. Typically they are annihilating a muscle once a week, to complete failure, with many sets, and wondering why they aren't getting any stronger next session.

The guys who are doing olympic lifting are using phases to their workouts and struggle to stay in their weight category as they find it all too easy to add muscle accidentally!! As for strength, many olympic lifters are putting up overhead more than most "bodybuilders" can deadlift.

Consider the eastern bloc lifters - they are doing super high volume but low intensity (typically 5-8 sets of 3 with only 80-85% of their 1RM) in the offseason. No sets are anywhere near failure, and they are almost never burning out. They will use this for loading, and then switch to an intensity peaking program with MUCH lower volume come competition time. This works like a charm and is the prime reason why there are teenage girls in russia putting up overhead more than many "bodybuilders" are squatting.

Train like oly lifters / powerlifters / strongman competitors but eat like a bodybuilder. Watch what happens - you'll be pleasantly surprised

crazycacti · 11-10-2006, 11:23 AM

very nice post....

i still have a few questions though when it comes to this...

say your loading your deadlift up nicely pushing past your PBs with ease, but your squat loading isn't going to well - infact you haven't been able to get the reps out for that week even though your deadlift is fine...

what do you do here in terms of phases?

**big** · 11-10-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycacti

very nice post....

i still have a few questions though when it comes to this...

say your loading your deadlift up nicely pushing past your PBs with ease, but your squat loading isn't going to well - infact you haven't been able to get the reps out for that week even though your deadlift is fine...

what do you do here in terms of phases?

It depends on your goals for the phase. Typically, unless you're quite new to lifting, you will NOT be able to take a (for example, 8 week) phase with goals of adding 10kg to your squat, bench, dead, OHP and row etc etc. Normally you prioritise. For example, if your squat is 190kg, your dead is 255kg, your bench is 150kg, and your OHP is 90kg, you would typically set up a phase to prioritise your squat and OHP and leave the rest of your lifts just ticking over.

So if you care about bringing up your deadlift numbers, just drop your squat back - possibly just do 5 sets of 3 @ 80% of your 1RM for the rest of your phase (which should be comfortable to do with just 2 mins rest between sets unless you're a particularly weak repper), and keep pushing with your deadlift.

However, if it's your squat you care mostly about, you'd best deload everything now if it's suffering.

Normally, it is VERY unlikely that you'll be able to get significant gains on BOTH your squat and your deadlift within an individual phase, as both are VERY taxing movements involving similar muscles.

When planning phases for people who are intermediate and advanced lifters, I typically prioritise one lower and one upper body movement and leave the rest of the lifts more or less constant. I will happily swap out strong lifts during a phase (like the deadlift using the above numbers) and replace them with more assistance work to help the weaker lifts (for example, doing box squats or good mornings instead).

BTW, the numbers above are mine, so it's probably no surprise to you that my next phase will be an attempt to add 10kg to my squat and OHP while not allowing my dead and bench to suffer (although in fact I will probably drop both deads and bench completely and do similar moves - probably GMs and CG bench - which will help both the moves I'm dropping AND the moves I'm prioritising).

crazycacti · 11-10-2006, 07:43 PM

Nice...

got you on that one - i'm just into my 3rd week of DC training atm... after 4 i'm going to have a 2 week cruise, repeat and have a look back on the numbers...

i think it'll be time to try this out after that ;)

**big** · 11-10-2006, 10:34 PM

How have the gains been on DC so far?

**hackskii** · 11-10-2006, 11:01 PM

Very impressive posts Matt.
I like the way you think.

Im going to have to relay that back to my training partner, he wants everything to go up

But he mostly wants his bench to go up.
He did a personal best in bench on Monday, personal best on deads Tuesday and a personal best in Squats today (Wednesday).
Hope he does not burn out his CNS.

fits · 12-10-2006, 10:59 AM

great post BIG!!!!!!

i am currently trying to get my big 4 lifts up......after 10 years training on and off.... and always dieting, i decided i should be able to lift a decent amount of weight so i am using a routine OSC advised me to do.

It was 3x3 5 times per week de-loading every monday......but i felt like i was being over trained a little, also i wanted to keep my weight between 15 and 16st but i went to 16st 4lbs so i started going to the gym in my lunch hour. just to do a little cardio as i sit on my ass all day at work!

I dropped back to 3 sessions per week weights and I am concentrating on bench, OHP and dead lift. I dont have the equipment to squat properly so i have just been doing fairly light squats. My thinking is that once my targets are met on the 3 lifts then ill bring squat up...... and i think this has helpped my other 3 lifts.

I also included sub targets so that when they are reached i was going to go from 3x3 to 4x3 to 5x3 the 5x4 then 5x5.....then start increasing the weight again at 3x3. does this sound any good?

Love the post big! :beer1:

LondonGeezer · 12-10-2006, 11:04 AM

Excellent post big!!..

**big** · 12-10-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fits

great post BIG!!!!!!

i am currently trying to get my big 4 lifts up......after 10 years training on and off.... and always dieting, i decided i should be able to lift a decent amount of weight so i am using a routine OSC advised me to do.

It was 3x3 5 times per week de-loading every monday......but i felt like i was being over trained a little, also i wanted to keep my weight between 15 and 16st but i went to 16st 4lbs so i started going to the gym in my lunch hour. just to do a little cardio as i sit on my ass all day at work!

I dropped back to 3 sessions per week weights and I am concentrating on bench, OHP and dead lift. I dont have the equipment to squat properly so i have just been doing fairly light squats. My thinking is that once my targets are met on the 3 lifts then ill bring squat up...... and i think this has helpped my other 3 lifts.

I also included sub targets so that when they are reached i was going to go from 3x3 to 4x3 to 5x3 the 5x4 then 5x5.....then start increasing the weight again at 3x3. does this sound any good?

Love the post big! :beer1:

Thanks dude

Yes, that way to train sounds excellent on paper - although obviously only you can say whether it's giving you results or not.

IMO working in the 3-5 rep range is exactly what you want to be doing for your goals. Hitting those lifts 3 times a week means you'll still need to deload regularly, although not as frequently as when you were hitting them 5x/week.

What were your lifts at the start of the program cookie put you on, what are your lifts now, and how long have you been doing the program for?

fits · 12-10-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Thanks dude

Yes, that way to train sounds excellent on paper - although obviously only you can say whether it's giving you results or not.

IMO working in the 3-5 rep range is exactly what you want to be doing for your goals. Hitting those lifts 3 times a week means you'll still need to deload regularly, although not as frequently as when you were hitting them 5x/week.

What were your lifts at the start of the program cookie put you on, what are your lifts now, and how long have you been doing the program for?

my log is on here if any one is interested (you have to sign up though) http://www.onesmartcookie.co.uk/foru...a648f4436de300

I am not sure what my 1 Or 3 RM was befor ehand, i guessed it and started very low as i had not been lifting for a while. I started on weights very much lower than what i could lift to get my body - tendons, ligaments etc OSC did say start ....25% lower than what you can do but i didnt do that i just guessed (wish i had of taken the time now)

Currently doing 56Kg OHP i guess when i started i would have got....less than 50kg 3x3 dead lift is currently at just under 118kg but i have recently done over 130kgx1 bench im up to 80kg i robably coul dhave done 72kg when i started the programme maybe 73/74...i actually failed once at 74kg:boohoo: but my g/f was there and i blame her for that lol saqut is at 70kg to 76kg as i have to get it onto shsoulders.

Started June 26 06 but had a few breaks already due to a holiday, ilness.....catching up with friends (was working abroad for 11months) so i am fairly pleased. I think i may start to struggle with bench now due to not having a spotting partner.

My goals are...OHP 100kg, Squat 150Kg,Bench press 150kg, deadl ift 200kg

OHP was 90kg target but i rounded it up, once over 70kg ill be well happy.
Squat i think once i get other lifts up and concentrate 150kg should not be too much of a problem
Bench Press i may start to struggle due to lack of safet equipment or spotter
Dead lift i think will be the easiest target for me to hit. might start using a belt after 150kg what do you think?

**big** · 12-10-2006, 12:03 PM

That's some good improvements dude, keep at it

I'll have a look at your log.

You have some lofty goals - although you should definitely set them for long-term goals, you should also make some smaller interim ones to hit in the meantime.

For example, while I have no doubt that you'll hit your 200kg deadlift in time, going from 130kg to 200kg is a mammoth jump and is unlikely to happen in the next few months. IMO make some smaller goals with specific time-frames which are just about attainable within a 2-3 month period, such as "deadlift 3 plates each side for 3 reps by christmas".

crazycacti · 12-10-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

How have the gains been on DC so far?

freaky to be fair... lot stronger in the second go of all the lifts so far (weeks 3-4)...

but this could be something to do with the fact i'm midway through week 3 of a test/tren cycle, lol - no frontloading with any oral though - just 600mg Test E EW alongside 300mg Tren ace EW...

The second go after the cruising should be fun

**big** · 12-10-2006, 12:42 PM

Sounds good. Keep us posted dude

fits · 12-10-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

That's some good improvements dude, keep at it

I'll have a look at your log.

You have some lofty goals - although you should definitely set them for long-term goals, you should also make some smaller interim ones to hit in the meantime.

For example, while I have no doubt that you'll hit your 200kg deadlift in time, going from 130kg to 200kg is a mammoth jump and is unlikely to happen in the next few months. IMO make some smaller goals with specific time-frames which are just about attainable within a 2-3 month period, such as "deadlift 3 plates each side for 3 reps by christmas".

yeah i was thinking about the sub-target targets :confused: not sure what too have them at. It was going to be Bench press 80Kg, OHP 60Kg, Dead lift120.....then do what i said about going up to 5x5 with them. but was thinking about increasing it to bench 90kg, OHP 65kg.

Do you think the increasing to 5x5is a good idea? or no point?

Thanks for your help BIG!

11-10-2006, 10:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	Training muscles once a week? From what I've read here, most of you guys hit each muscle only once a week, is this because you are more experienced and bigger? Many people say that a muscle has fully recovered after 3 days so you can train them twice a week, is there any reason why you bigger guys don't train each muscle twice a week? Thanks.

11-10-2006, 11:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,450	Nobody can say a muscle is recovered after 3 days, because it depends on genetics, volume and intensity. Do 1 set of 3 with 50% of your 1RM and you'll be recovered within a matter of hours (probably minutes actually). You could do 1 set of 3 with 50% every day of the week for the next 10 years and you would NOT overtrain. Therefore the muscle is recovering much faster than 3 days. Do 10 sets of 3 with 90-95% of your 1RM on squats or deads, and then tell me how many more times you'll be able to do that 3 days later. The answer is probably not many before you burn-out completely. It would take a whole lot longer to recover from - probably several weeks, as most of those sets would be to/near failure. You HAVE to get away from this idea that a muscle needs to be fully recovered before you can retrain it. That is NOT optimal. That is bodybuilding bull**** and one of several reasons why most people fail at bodybuilding. You need to have volume loading phases, deloading phases and intensity phases for the best results. The guys who are bodybuilding and hitting a muscle group once a week GENERALLY struggle to gain mass and strength and are typically repeating workouts over and over, effectively banging their head against a brick wall and hoping they'll break it down. Typically they are annihilating a muscle once a week, to complete failure, with many sets, and wondering why they aren't getting any stronger next session. The guys who are doing olympic lifting are using phases to their workouts and struggle to stay in their weight category as they find it all too easy to add muscle accidentally!! As for strength, many olympic lifters are putting up overhead more than most "bodybuilders" can deadlift. Consider the eastern bloc lifters - they are doing super high volume but low intensity (typically 5-8 sets of 3 with only 80-85% of their 1RM) in the offseason. No sets are anywhere near failure, and they are almost never burning out. They will use this for loading, and then switch to an intensity peaking program with MUCH lower volume come competition time. This works like a charm and is the prime reason why there are teenage girls in russia putting up overhead more than many "bodybuilders" are squatting. Train like oly lifters / powerlifters / strongman competitors but eat like a bodybuilder. Watch what happens - you'll be pleasantly surprised __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-10-2006, 11:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
crazycacti Fat and bulking... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Isle of Man/Newcastle Posts: 1,417	very nice post.... i still have a few questions though when it comes to this... say your loading your deadlift up nicely pushing past your PBs with ease, but your squat loading isn't going to well - infact you haven't been able to get the reps out for that week even though your deadlift is fine... what do you do here in terms of phases? __________________ Insulin Spikes? Glycemic Index? Just ask Timmy Smooth... 'Well I've just downed 4 Iceland sausage rolls and my arms are shaking like an epilectic on a bucking bronco.' Last edited by crazycacti; 11-10-2006 at 11:27 AM.

11-10-2006, 07:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
crazycacti Fat and bulking... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Isle of Man/Newcastle Posts: 1,417	Nice... got you on that one - i'm just into my 3rd week of DC training atm... after 4 i'm going to have a 2 week cruise, repeat and have a look back on the numbers... i think it'll be time to try this out after that ;) __________________ Insulin Spikes? Glycemic Index? Just ask Timmy Smooth... 'Well I've just downed 4 Iceland sausage rolls and my arms are shaking like an epilectic on a bucking bronco.'

11-10-2006, 10:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,450	How have the gains been on DC so far? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-10-2006, 11:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,717	Very impressive posts Matt. I like the way you think. Im going to have to relay that back to my training partner, he wants everything to go up But he mostly wants his bench to go up. He did a personal best in bench on Monday, personal best on deads Tuesday and a personal best in Squats today (Wednesday). Hope he does not burn out his CNS. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-10-2006, 10:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
fits Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: East London Posts: 1,361	great post BIG!!!!!! i am currently trying to get my big 4 lifts up......after 10 years training on and off.... and always dieting, i decided i should be able to lift a decent amount of weight so i am using a routine OSC advised me to do. It was 3x3 5 times per week de-loading every monday......but i felt like i was being over trained a little, also i wanted to keep my weight between 15 and 16st but i went to 16st 4lbs so i started going to the gym in my lunch hour. just to do a little cardio as i sit on my ass all day at work! I dropped back to 3 sessions per week weights and I am concentrating on bench, OHP and dead lift. I dont have the equipment to squat properly so i have just been doing fairly light squats. My thinking is that once my targets are met on the 3 lifts then ill bring squat up...... and i think this has helpped my other 3 lifts. I also included sub targets so that when they are reached i was going to go from 3x3 to 4x3 to 5x3 the 5x4 then 5x5.....then start increasing the weight again at 3x3. does this sound any good? Love the post big! :beer1:

12-10-2006, 11:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	Excellent post big!!.. __________________ NEED INFORMATION?? FIND IT HERE: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My NEWEST website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Eee-Ooo Dares.. Wins!!:lift: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-10-2006, 12:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,450	That's some good improvements dude, keep at it I'll have a look at your log. You have some lofty goals - although you should definitely set them for long-term goals, you should also make some smaller interim ones to hit in the meantime. For example, while I have no doubt that you'll hit your 200kg deadlift in time, going from 130kg to 200kg is a mammoth jump and is unlikely to happen in the next few months. IMO make some smaller goals with specific time-frames which are just about attainable within a 2-3 month period, such as "deadlift 3 plates each side for 3 reps by christmas". __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-10-2006, 12:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,450	Sounds good. Keep us posted dude __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.