Are leg extensions any good? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

JFallon · 19-09-2006, 03:35 PM

I've read a lot of negative things about leg extensions. What is it about them that are so bad?
With my routine I do two excercises per bodypart, two times a week. First I do a heavy compound excercise 5x5, followed by 2 sets of 15 reps - this is called hypertrophy primer, the pricipal of which can be read at the link:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=75958

For quads I do 5x5 squats, then 2x15 leg extensions. Obviously leg extensions would be no good if they were my main quad excercise, but do you think they're ok for "killing" the quads?
Oh, and what do you think of the hypertrophy primer idea itself? Have you seen/used anything similar yourselves?
Thanks.

**hackskii** · 19-09-2006, 11:07 PM

Man, that took some time to read that whole thread

I think he presents a very good argument but I see some flaws there.

I myself like to do a couple of compound exercises and the workset is to failure.
For instance on bench, I save myself pyramiding up and the last set is to failure.
I dont like doing lower reps as I tend to be prone to injury so I keep my reps around 10 with everything.

I like the Mike Menzer workouts where it is low volume and high intensity but I like the reps around 8-12 myself.

I think there is massive misconception on hypertrophy and the diffrent methods.
I dont agree with the pro's workouts as they are genetically gifted and drug assisted. Listening to a pro will lead to overtraining and deminished gains.

But to be honest I have seen a million routines all suggesting benefits over the other.
Hell, they all cant be right now can they?

I would do your routine, see if you are getting gains whether it be in increased reps or weight and this will be an indicator of some growth, whether it be in size or strength. If you increase in strength then you are going in the right direction, if not then you are going in the wrong direction.

Big would be the best one to answer this one.

That dude does write nice and has alot of information, but the testosterone release and growth hormone release I feel is a good thing, and probably plays a bigger factor than he realises.
Older men that use resistance training usually have higher testosterone levels than their couch potato counterparts.

Tatyana · 20-09-2006, 01:17 AM

I would say that leg extensions are mainly 'shapers'.

Great for cutting up the legs and also good for building the inside teardrop of the quad.

Not as in depth as Hackskii, but hey! Using 'shapers' and 'builders' works for me

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**big** · 20-09-2006, 06:37 AM

Only one way to find out for sure dude

The reason why you've probably heard so many negative things about leg extensions is that they can put undue stress on the knees.

As far as I'm concerned, unless you're a competitive-level bodybuilder with a specific flaw (e.g. your rear delts need bringing up as they keep causing you to place 2nd), you shouldn't bother wasting your time or cutting into recovery with isolation moves. Muscle shape is genetically determined - you can't change the shape of it. Muscle either contracts or it doesn't. All you can do is make it bigger. And the best way to do this is with heavy compound moves, good form and progressive resistance. The "shape" comes from cutting up, as you remove the fat and can "see" the muscle - hence it looks more shapely - although it hasn't changed shape at all.

Give the routine in the thread a shot and see what happens, but IMO you should be concentrating exclusively on compound moves.

I believe it was Stuart McRobert (author of Beyond Brawn) who said something along the lines of this:

If this was all you did in the gym, and worked up to lifting these kind of weights over the next few years...
Squats 200kgx20
Bench 180kgx3
OHP 100kgx10
Chins BW+40kgx8
Dips BW+40kgx10
Rows 140kgx10
...do you honestly think you wouldn't be ****ing massive?!

Go into a hardcore gym, watch the guys who are lifting similar weights to the above with good form, and tell me if any of them don't look like they're a bodybuilder/powerlifter/whatever.

However, I see lots of guys day-in and day-out at the gym messing around with the leg extensions/bi curls/machines using the full stack, and they barely look like they've touched a weight in their life.

**Tinytom** · 20-09-2006, 09:10 AM

I never bother with leg extensions anymore.

I suffer from bad knee tendon problems whenever I do them and so have dropped them from my routine altogether.

I stick to

Front Squats
Leg Press
Lunges

DB · 20-09-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

As far as I'm concerned, unless you're a competitive-level bodybuilder with a specific flaw (e.g. your rear delts need bringing up as they keep causing you to place 2nd), you shouldn't bother wasting your time or cutting into recovery with isolation moves. Muscle shape is genetically determined - you can't change the shape of it. Muscle either contracts or it doesn't. All you can do is make it bigger. And the best way to do this is with heavy compound moves, good form and progressive resistance. The "shape" comes from cutting up, as you remove the fat and can "see" the muscle - hence it looks more shapely - although it hasn't changed shape at all.

nice post princess :love:

Tatyana · 20-09-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Only one way to find out for sure dude

The reason why you've probably heard so many negative things about leg extensions is that they can put undue stress on the knees.

As far as I'm concerned, unless you're a competitive-level bodybuilder with a specific flaw (e.g. your rear delts need bringing up as they keep causing you to place 2nd), you shouldn't bother wasting your time or cutting into recovery with isolation moves. Muscle shape is genetically determined - you can't change the shape of it. Muscle either contracts or it doesn't. All you can do is make it bigger. And the best way to do this is with heavy compound moves, good form and progressive resistance. The "shape" comes from cutting up, as you remove the fat and can "see" the muscle - hence it looks more shapely - although it hasn't changed shape at all.

Thanks Big, that really cleared things up for me, I might start using the terms builders and rippers.

Give the routine in the thread a shot and see what happens, but IMO you should be concentrating exclusively on compound moves.

I believe it was Stuart McRobert (author of Beyond Brawn) who said something along the lines of this:

If this was all you did in the gym, and worked up to lifting these kind of weights over the next few years...
Squats 200kgx20
Bench 180kgx3
OHP 100kgx10 Military press with bar or dumbells, what do you think of plate loading machines? Smith machine?
Chins BW+40kgx8
Dips BW+40kgx10
Rows 140kgx10 Do you mean bent over rows with a bar or dumbells?
...do you honestly think you wouldn't be ****ing massive?!

Go into a hardcore gym, watch the guys who are lifting similar weights to the above with good form, and tell me if any of them don't look like they're a bodybuilder/powerlifter/whatever.

However, I see lots of guys day-in and day-out at the gym messing around with the leg extensions/bi curls/machines using the full stack, and they barely look like they've touched a weight in their life.

Thanks, that was a great post princess!

I don't always do the girlie leg machines (x-tensions, seated curls, abductors, adductors), however, when I do, it is never super heavy, usually high volume, and it is for comp prep.

I haven't done a lot of bicep work until recently either, and don't like those preacher's bench machines at all.

The machine for triceps is a JOKE, and so many trainers put women on it who want to 'tone up the flabby bits on their arms'.

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JFallon · 20-09-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Only one way to find out for sure dude

The reason why you've probably heard so many negative things about leg extensions is that they can put undue stress on the knees.

Give the routine in the thread a shot and see what happens, but IMO you should be concentrating exclusively on compound moves.

I don't know how much of the thread you read but there was a guy on there who said that the basic idea was sound, but he would do the low weight/high rep work with comounds instead of isolations. I agree with this, where possible. So I'm going to do squats 5x5 and lunges 2x15. For shoulders I do standing military presses 5x5 and arnold presses 2x15.
The exceptions for me are biceps (standing curls 5x5 and hammer curls 2x15) and chest (flat bench 5x5 and flat flyes 2x15).
Its the same principal as the guy who wrote the article, but he likes to finish the muscles off with isolations every time, whereas I think light/high rep compounds would "kill" the muscles more effectively.
Also, I'm thinking that 15 reps may be too light. I may opt for a maximum of 12 reps - as this is said to be the high end of the hypertrophy range.

Timmy Smooth · 20-09-2006, 11:39 AM

I'm training legs today in my new gym. I want to see hoew much I can fit on the press. I was going to go from the press to calves to Ham Curls and maybe finish off with an extension set or two. I've got about 55 minutes on my lunch break. Would you suggest doing my main sets on the press, then new sets dropping the weight, increasing the reps and putting my feet on the upper-outer part of the platform to focus on hams?

**big** · 20-09-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

If this was all you did in the gym, and worked up to lifting these kind of weights over the next few years...
Squats 200kgx20
Bench 180kgx3
OHP 100kgx10 Military press with bar or dumbells, what do you think of plate loading machines? Smith machine?
Chins BW+40kgx8
Dips BW+40kgx10
Rows 140kgx10 Do you mean bent over rows with a bar or dumbells?

The OHP would typically be standing, with a bar. Plate loading machines are inferior, as they don't work your stabiliser muscles. I've seen lots of guys pressing 100kg+ on a smith machine, who struggle with 60kg with a bar due to lack of strength in stabilisers, as they never get worked.

The rows would be with a barbell, Pendlay-style.

**big** · 20-09-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFallon

I don't know how much of the thread you read but there was a guy on there who said that the basic idea was sound, but he would do the low weight/high rep work with comounds instead of isolations. I agree with this, where possible. So I'm going to do squats 5x5 and lunges 2x15. For shoulders I do standing military presses 5x5 and arnold presses 2x15.
The exceptions for me are biceps (standing curls 5x5 and hammer curls 2x15) and chest (flat bench 5x5 and flat flyes 2x15).
Its the same principal as the guy who wrote the article, but he likes to finish the muscles off with isolations every time, whereas I think light/high rep compounds would "kill" the muscles more effectively.
Also, I'm thinking that 15 reps may be too light. I may opt for a maximum of 12 reps - as this is said to be the high end of the hypertrophy range.

IMO doing a backdown set would do little more than give you a "pump"... which may make you feel like you've had more of a workout, but I'd be surprised if it actually did anything more than if you just did the 5x5 work on it's own. Although you'll never know without trying both yourself.

I have never agreed with trying to "kill" the muscles though. IMO this is very counter-productive.

Tatyana · 20-09-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

The OHP would typically be standing, with a bar. Plate loading machines are inferior, as they don't work your stabiliser muscles. I've seen lots of guys pressing 100kg+ on a smith machine, who struggle with 60kg with a bar due to lack of strength in stabilisers, as they never get worked.

The rows would be with a barbell, Pendlay-style.

Ok sorry for being so blonde Big but what are Pendlay-style, is that bent over with your butt sticking out, lifting from 'the elbows'.

Like I have confessed, I have trained for ages, I just don't know what anything is bloody called!

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**big** · 20-09-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

Ok sorry for being so blonde Big but what are Pendlay-style, is that bent over with your butt sticking out, lifting from 'the elbows'.

Like I have confessed, I have trained for ages, I just don't know what anything is bloody called!

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T

Pendlay rows are bent-over rows performed as close to your body being bent over parallel to the floor as possible, and returning the bar to the floor between reps with a double-overhand grip. There are probably some pics/videos of this on google.

You keep your hips still and pull with the arms only and a slight arch of the back. NEVER let your back round.

IMO these are the best way by far to perform rows.

Tatyana · 20-09-2006, 01:43 PM

Ok they are what I thought they are!

Pics and a link to a video

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw23.htm

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**big** · 20-09-2006, 01:45 PM

Glenn tends to recommend being FAR more bent-over than that (he's at about 45 degrees in the pic - ideally you want to be as close to 90 as possible), and allow the bar to touch the floor between reps.

However, it's obviously going to be based on your flexibility.

19-09-2006, 03:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	Are leg extensions any good? I've read a lot of negative things about leg extensions. What is it about them that are so bad? With my routine I do two excercises per bodypart, two times a week. First I do a heavy compound excercise 5x5, followed by 2 sets of 15 reps - this is called hypertrophy primer, the pricipal of which can be read at the link: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=75958 For quads I do 5x5 squats, then 2x15 leg extensions. Obviously leg extensions would be no good if they were my main quad excercise, but do you think they're ok for "killing" the quads? Oh, and what do you think of the hypertrophy primer idea itself? Have you seen/used anything similar yourselves? Thanks.

19-09-2006, 11:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,650	Man, that took some time to read that whole thread I think he presents a very good argument but I see some flaws there. I myself like to do a couple of compound exercises and the workset is to failure. For instance on bench, I save myself pyramiding up and the last set is to failure. I dont like doing lower reps as I tend to be prone to injury so I keep my reps around 10 with everything. I like the Mike Menzer workouts where it is low volume and high intensity but I like the reps around 8-12 myself. I think there is massive misconception on hypertrophy and the diffrent methods. I dont agree with the pro's workouts as they are genetically gifted and drug assisted. Listening to a pro will lead to overtraining and deminished gains. But to be honest I have seen a million routines all suggesting benefits over the other. Hell, they all cant be right now can they? I would do your routine, see if you are getting gains whether it be in increased reps or weight and this will be an indicator of some growth, whether it be in size or strength. If you increase in strength then you are going in the right direction, if not then you are going in the wrong direction. Big would be the best one to answer this one. That dude does write nice and has alot of information, but the testosterone release and growth hormone release I feel is a good thing, and probably plays a bigger factor than he realises. Older men that use resistance training usually have higher testosterone levels than their couch potato counterparts. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

20-09-2006, 06:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,406	Only one way to find out for sure dude The reason why you've probably heard so many negative things about leg extensions is that they can put undue stress on the knees. As far as I'm concerned, unless you're a competitive-level bodybuilder with a specific flaw (e.g. your rear delts need bringing up as they keep causing you to place 2nd), you shouldn't bother wasting your time or cutting into recovery with isolation moves. Muscle shape is genetically determined - you can't change the shape of it. Muscle either contracts or it doesn't. All you can do is make it bigger. And the best way to do this is with heavy compound moves, good form and progressive resistance. The "shape" comes from cutting up, as you remove the fat and can "see" the muscle - hence it looks more shapely - although it hasn't changed shape at all. Give the routine in the thread a shot and see what happens, but IMO you should be concentrating exclusively on compound moves. I believe it was Stuart McRobert (author of Beyond Brawn) who said something along the lines of this: If this was all you did in the gym, and worked up to lifting these kind of weights over the next few years... Squats 200kgx20 Bench 180kgx3 OHP 100kgx10 Chins BW+40kgx8 Dips BW+40kgx10 Rows 140kgx10 ...do you honestly think you wouldn't be ***ing massive?! Go into a hardcore gym, watch the guys who are lifting similar weights to the above with good form, and tell me if any of them don't look like they're a bodybuilder/powerlifter/whatever. However, I see lots of guys day-in and day-out at the gym messing around with the leg extensions/bi curls/machines using the full stack, and they barely look like they've touched a weight in their life. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

20-09-2006, 09:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tinytom super-hypno-moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Babylon Posts: 5,886	I never bother with leg extensions anymore. I suffer from bad knee tendon problems whenever I do them and so have dropped them from my routine altogether. I stick to Front Squats Leg Press Lunges __________________ We are what we do. Excellence is therefore a habit not a skill. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Code 'UKM 110' for an extra 5% discount To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Also mod at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Sponsored by Extreme Nutrition - Almost an unfair advantage

20-09-2006, 01:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,406	Glenn tends to recommend being FAR more bent-over than that (he's at about 45 degrees in the pic - ideally you want to be as close to 90 as possible), and allow the bar to touch the floor between reps. However, it's obviously going to be based on your flexibility. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

20-09-2006, 01:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tatyana My name is EARL Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On my bloody bike doing cardio Posts: 3,463	I would say that leg extensions are mainly 'shapers'. Great for cutting up the legs and also good for building the inside teardrop of the quad. Not as in depth as Hackskii, but hey! Using 'shapers' and 'builders' works for me x x x T

20-09-2006, 11:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
Timmy Smooth Banned Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Camden, London, via Cardiff. Posts: 2,794	I'm training legs today in my new gym. I want to see hoew much I can fit on the press. I was going to go from the press to calves to Ham Curls and maybe finish off with an extension set or two. I've got about 55 minutes on my lunch break. Would you suggest doing my main sets on the press, then new sets dropping the weight, increasing the reps and putting my feet on the upper-outer part of the platform to focus on hams?