Progressive loading while cutting? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

JFallon · 05-07-2006, 12:10 AM

In maybe 6-8 weeks I'm going to go on a cutting phase to shed a little of the bodyfat I have gained (I have gained a decent amount of muscle too) I'm wondering, while I'm cutting, using a low carb/fat and high protein diet, should I stick with the weight loads I'm using at the point that I stop bulking, and continue using these same amounts of weight during my cutting phase, or should I continue to increase the amount of weight I use each time i work a certain muscle group?

**big** · 05-07-2006, 12:19 AM

Since you're planning on eating low carb AND low fat, I will be VERY surprised if you can keep your strength, much less load. In fact, I predict that you'll be losing a fair amount of strength very quickly.

JFallon · 05-07-2006, 09:11 AM

Could you be a tad more constructive?
The reason I ask about the progressive loading is because people say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so does this mean its a bad idea to be lifting more and more weight while cutting? Isn't it better just to maintain what muscle you do have by sticking to the same weight during the cutting phase?

**big** · 05-07-2006, 01:19 PM

How is that not constructive?

If you cutting diet is good enough and you do things slowly, unless you're very advanced you should be able to gain strength.

A low fat AND low carb diet is NOT a good cutting diet - hence you will probably not be able to do that.

DB · 05-07-2006, 02:09 PM

agree with BIG

low carb+ HIGH fat + HIGH protien is good to cut on!

u will loose size on a low fat&carb diet mate and i'm sure u wont be able to load on that as ur body will struggle to recover imo

JFallon · 05-07-2006, 08:29 PM

I'm only planning on cutting 500 calories from my daily intake, losing 1 pound per week, doing it slowly will mean I lose less lean muscle, I don't think 500 calories less will turn me back into a weakling.

**big** · 05-07-2006, 08:39 PM

What are your stats and how many calories will you be taking in and in what ratios?

crazycacti · 05-07-2006, 09:00 PM

what will your body use as energy on a low carb and fat diet?

emmm....

JFallon · 05-07-2006, 10:19 PM

I wouldn't call 500 fewer calories a low carb and low fat diet, just a little less. Believe me, as someone who has lost a lot of bodyfat in the last 2 years I have become an expert at knowing how to lose weight (for my particular body) so I know exactly what works and doesn't work for me, much better than any nutritionalist ever could. I didn't start this thread to get dietary advice, because I don't need it, I just wanted to know if I should continue to load progressively.
Different diets work for different people, and I know precisely what works for me. I should, having lost just over 4 stones in bodyfat. I know exactly what I'm doing and at at what rate to go.

**big** · 05-07-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFallon

I wouldn't call 500 fewer calories a low carb and low fat diet, just a little less. Believe me, as someone who has lost a lot of bodyfat in the last 2 years I have become an expert at knowing how to lose weight (for my particular body) so I know exactly what works and doesn't work for me, much better than any nutritionalist ever could. I didn't start this thread to get dietary advice, because I don't need it, I just wanted to know if I should continue to load progressively.
Different diets work for different people, and I know precisely what works for me. I should, having lost just over 4 stones in bodyfat. I know exactly what I'm doing and at at what rate to go.

Well you said you were on a low-carb and low-fat diet, which is why you got the responses you got. You were the one who called your diet low carb and low fat. For all we knew you could be trying to get all of your calories from protein.

If you're an expert at diet and can get the correct diet, you should easily be able to get stronger and load progressively without any problems.

If you're unable to, then you'll need to look at your training routine, since your diet is perfect.

**hackskii** · 05-07-2006, 11:24 PM

Dropping your cals by 500 a day is a good idea for a starting place.
When dieting I find myself that lowering the carbs and upping the fats the most effective for me.

That 500 calorie rule a day can come from diet restrictions or cardio. So 300 less cals a day and 200 cals burned during cardio will yield the best benefits.

The only way of gaining muscle while dieting would probably come from the use of gear.

On maintenance you can probably lose fat and gain a small amount of muscle.

Gaining muscle is actually harder than most people realise.
Id say about a half pound a month would be about right for the natural lifter.

Big was right though in his comment about low fat low carb diets would probably yeild poor results.
For a number of reasons low fat low carb diets can yeild lower testosterone levels, very poor energy, not only that but you are telling the body to use protein for fuel and those muscles you are packing, will be catabolised for fuel.

Dieting can be as simple as adding more fiber in your diet (35 grams burns 250 cals), even Ice water (150 cals per gallon of ice water), cardio, etc.

**big** · 05-07-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

The only way of gaining muscle while dieting would probably come from the use of gear.

Nice post but I disagree with this part. In my experience, unless you're very advanced (or are trying to be too aggressive with a diet), if you're timing your carbs correctly and are on the right training routine, it's entirely possible to get stronger and increase your LBM during a dieting phase.

The problem most people have is that they try to keep the volume the same despite lower calories - and go nowhere fast in terms of their lifting. Or they're trying to load too aggressively.

The other problem have is going 500 calories under maintenance. While this is correct, usually these people come from a 500-1000 calorie SURPLUS, so are actually dropping calories by 1000-1500 overnight. Not sensible if you're hoping to get stronger.

The other thing you can do is increase your metabolism by eating loads of protein, loads of good fats and turn your body into a furnace. I've seen plenty of people INCREASE their calories, but LOSE bodyfat just by amending their macros and what they're eating (rather than the overall calorie content). By timing your carbs around your workouts and keeping fats high at other times, your energy levels will stay high, and your lifting will not suffer - in fact quite the opposite.

NHB · 23-01-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Nice post but I disagree with this part. In my experience, unless you're very advanced (or are trying to be too aggressive with a diet), if you're timing your carbs correctly and are on the right training routine, it's entirely possible to get stronger and increase your LBM during a dieting phase.

The problem most people have is that they try to keep the volume the same despite lower calories - and go nowhere fast in terms of their lifting. Or they're trying to load too aggressively.

The other problem have is going 500 calories under maintenance. While this is correct, usually these people come from a 500-1000 calorie SURPLUS, so are actually dropping calories by 1000-1500 overnight. Not sensible if you're hoping to get stronger.

The other thing you can do is increase your metabolism by eating loads of protein, loads of good fats and turn your body into a furnace. I've seen plenty of people INCREASE their calories, but LOSE bodyfat just by amending their macros and what they're eating (rather than the overall calorie content). By timing your carbs around your workouts and keeping fats high at other times, your energy levels will stay high, and your lifting will not suffer - in fact quite the opposite.

Big, I was wondering if you could help me with my diet. I posted my situation here:
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-s...ng-advice.html
I'd really appreciate it if you could help me out. I wanna try and gain strength and lose fat at the same time. I'm not looking to lose the fat extremely fast or anything, but I'd still like to lose it without sacraficing strength.

05-07-2006, 12:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	Progressive loading while cutting? In maybe 6-8 weeks I'm going to go on a cutting phase to shed a little of the bodyfat I have gained (I have gained a decent amount of muscle too) I'm wondering, while I'm cutting, using a low carb/fat and high protein diet, should I stick with the weight loads I'm using at the point that I stop bulking, and continue using these same amounts of weight during my cutting phase, or should I continue to increase the amount of weight I use each time i work a certain muscle group?

05-07-2006, 12:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beer me Posts: 5,277	Since you're planning on eating low carb AND low fat, I will be VERY surprised if you can keep your strength, much less load. In fact, I predict that you'll be losing a fair amount of strength very quickly. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-07-2006, 09:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	Could you be a tad more constructive? The reason I ask about the progressive loading is because people say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so does this mean its a bad idea to be lifting more and more weight while cutting? Isn't it better just to maintain what muscle you do have by sticking to the same weight during the cutting phase? Last edited by JFallon; 05-07-2006 at 10:50 AM.

05-07-2006, 01:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beer me Posts: 5,277	How is that not constructive? If you cutting diet is good enough and you do things slowly, unless you're very advanced you should be able to gain strength. A low fat AND low carb diet is NOT a good cutting diet - hence you will probably not be able to do that. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-07-2006, 02:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
DB UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SW London Posts: 11,222	agree with BIG low carb+ HIGH fat + HIGH protien is good to cut on! u will loose size on a low fat&carb diet mate and i'm sure u wont be able to load on that as ur body will struggle to recover imo __________________ DB To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. often imitated never duplicated To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. DB sleeps with a night light. Not because DB is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of DB. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-07-2006, 08:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	I'm only planning on cutting 500 calories from my daily intake, losing 1 pound per week, doing it slowly will mean I lose less lean muscle, I don't think 500 calories less will turn me back into a weakling.

05-07-2006, 08:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beer me Posts: 5,277	What are your stats and how many calories will you be taking in and in what ratios? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-07-2006, 09:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
crazycacti Fat and bulking... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Isle of Man/Newcastle Posts: 1,417	what will your body use as energy on a low carb and fat diet? emmm.... __________________ Insulin Spikes? Glycemic Index? Just ask Timmy Smooth... 'Well I've just downed 4 Iceland sausage rolls and my arms are shaking like an epilectic on a bucking bronco.'

05-07-2006, 10:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
JFallon Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	I wouldn't call 500 fewer calories a low carb and low fat diet, just a little less. Believe me, as someone who has lost a lot of bodyfat in the last 2 years I have become an expert at knowing how to lose weight (for my particular body) so I know exactly what works and doesn't work for me, much better than any nutritionalist ever could. I didn't start this thread to get dietary advice, because I don't need it, I just wanted to know if I should continue to load progressively. Different diets work for different people, and I know precisely what works for me. I should, having lost just over 4 stones in bodyfat. I know exactly what I'm doing and at at what rate to go.

05-07-2006, 11:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,150	Dropping your cals by 500 a day is a good idea for a starting place. When dieting I find myself that lowering the carbs and upping the fats the most effective for me. That 500 calorie rule a day can come from diet restrictions or cardio. So 300 less cals a day and 200 cals burned during cardio will yield the best benefits. The only way of gaining muscle while dieting would probably come from the use of gear. On maintenance you can probably lose fat and gain a small amount of muscle. Gaining muscle is actually harder than most people realise. Id say about a half pound a month would be about right for the natural lifter. Big was right though in his comment about low fat low carb diets would probably yeild poor results. For a number of reasons low fat low carb diets can yeild lower testosterone levels, very poor energy, not only that but you are telling the body to use protein for fuel and those muscles you are packing, will be catabolised for fuel. Dieting can be as simple as adding more fiber in your diet (35 grams burns 250 cals), even Ice water (150 cals per gallon of ice water), cardio, etc. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.