Wheale

Im looking to start a two day a week routine and was wondering if its ok to do regular deadlifts and squats on the same day squats first immediately followed by deads. Is this gonna be too much of the same muscle targeted in one workout or do you think one will suffer too greatly because of the other?

dk246

i think it depends on the amount of reps that u do. i used to do them on the same day but that was strength training. but u might be working a bit to much if ur gonna be going for reps on the both of them imho

fits

I think its a bit much, although can be done, DB was doing a routine that used both. Try doing partial dead...........theres a name for them.......?? if you can, use a power Rack and star with the bar just below your knees, that way you wont use legs so much

big

It depends on the rest of your routine and your recovery ability. I gained nicely on a 2 day routine which had squats/deads together on one of the days. However, I eventually had the drop the deads completely in order to keep gaining on the squats (which was the focus of my program at the time).

What's your entire routine (including sets and reps), and what are your main goals from the program?

Wheale

Increasing my strength is my main goal whilst learning to use good form. I am not really looking to use 2-5 reps as I dont think my form is good enough to be using a weight that is so close to my pb on that lift so I wanna use 4-8 reps if I use slightly higher reps 8-12 it can leave me extremely out of breath after squats. Here is the routine I am considering

Monday
Squats 2 light warmup sets 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 4-8reps
Deadlifts 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 4-8 reps
Dumbell row or Chins 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 8-12 reps
Calf Raise 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 15-30 reps
Ab Machine 2 work sets 15-30 reps

Thursday
Bench Press 2 light warmup sets 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 8-12reps
Smith Machine Shoulder Press or dumbell shoulder press 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 8-12 reps
French Press 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 8-12 reps
Barbell Curl 2 pyramiding sets 2 work sets 8-12 reps
Ab Machine 2 work sets 15-30reps

megatron

i would say that it also depends on the type of deadlift you are doing, SLDL's should be no problem combined with squats as they work mainly different muscle groups.

AussieMarc

I would personally choose to do Deads before Squats as I find squats are a more intense exersize and it beats me how you will do deads when your legs feel like jelly. It has been done by treating Deads as basically your warmup to squats.

Aftershock

I agree squats and training quads in general is so demanding that your not gona to be able to work with enough intensity to stimulate growth after you have done them... So do the deads first.

I'd also prefer Still Leg Deads as opposed to reagular deads, you are gona give your hams and quads a really good workout doing these two together, as well as you lower back, forarms etc etc.. Not to heavy on the deads obviously else you risk getting to much of a pump in the lower back which will make the squats very uncomftable... Keep it at a moderate weight and concentrate on a nice smooth pull with no jerky movements. Its about quality not quantily..

If your feeling very silly one day try supersetting the movements, 3 sets of each should be ample. Oh yeah and take a bucket to the gym with ya cause that workout may be short but its a killer :p

Wheale

cheers for the response ill try doing SLDL before squats aint either tried it before but there is no way ill superset those for a long time thats way too hardcore, squats take alot out of me which should have been obvious when I did deads after squats as my thighs were shaking. thanks for the ideas

ONE SMART COOKIE

Nothing wrong with doing deads and squats in the same day...

I would just keep the reps and sets down to say 3 sets of 8 and have about 5-10 mins rest between doing each exercise..

big pete

same here.

its what i do for strength right now and works a reet treat.

AussieMarc

Yes that is very true, however when it comes to Straight Leg Deads, form is at the utmost importance since it is such an exersize with a huge injury risk, so reduce the weight intensity. Why? Lets look at it this way - In a deadlift you are using your hamstrings, glutes, calves, traps and lastly your 3 quad muscles. Of course the glutes are your prime movers, but your quads do a lot of work in the extension of the knee joint. If you were to reduce the work in one muscle, not to mention cut it out entirely, the rest of your muscles will have to work a hell of a lot harder to lift the same weight. It's just like trying to do Bench without a tricep, or a leg extension instead of a squat - you are putting more resistance on your quads by removing the help of the biggest muscle on your body - the glutes. So theoretically, unless you tear a glute there should be no reason you replace an exersize that uses all the muscles together (compound exersze) with something that isolates muscles individually such as a leg extension as you are putting more stress on one area, and what stimulates muscle growth? intesive weight (ignoring diet for a second). And how do you lift more? Compound exersizes.

My opinion? Straight legged deadlifts are fine, and in his case yes they are quite ideal as you are doing your quads in squats in the next exersize, however just remember that straight legged deadlifts put more stress on your glutes, meaning that you are shifting the fatigue of your muscles from your quads to your glutes - biggest muscles in the body. As Aftershock said, straight legged deads are an option and work for some people, but knowing my body, I would stick with normal deads.

AussieMarc

My mistake for bumping the post again.. But come to think of it... What is the real point of stiff legged deads? More un-needed pressure on your glutes and you put your knees in a locked position so if you struggle it wouldnt be difficult to tear the tendens on your patella or snap your legs.

big pete

its stiff leg deadlifts, not straight leg deadlifts.

there should always be a slight bend in your leg when doing SLDLs, as you stated. to take the pressure away from mainly the knees..

SLDL's have there place, they help breaking through barriers. especially when it comes to strength. if you deadlift but you predominantly drive with your legs and havent the back strength to cope with the sudden pull your legs will be straight before you know and the bar hasnt yet left the floor!!! by having the core strength of your posterior chain you then (aslong as your grip and traps can cope) you have a more succesful basis for the move. allowing your quads to then blast the bar above your knees and allowing you to drive your hips to lockout.

they have there place, so do good mornings.

AussieMarc

Ahh right seems like a good reason. I am doing a personal training course and just everything the instructors say tend to discourage people from a percieved "bad exersize" like that are for you. I never personally had a problem with them, just questioning. Oh and Straight Leg / Stiff leg.. Practically means the same thing doesnt it?

In addition, when you do normal deadlifts, wouldnt your prosterior muscles be contracted as you lift anyway? Why would you bother isolating them from your quads? I have always thought compounds were just for that purpose - large group of muscles for one exersize.

Not starting an argument here just a general discussion I guess.