winger

I have been seeing some conflicting news about post workouts and carbs. Some say take in a fast carb about 30 minutes before a workout for glycogen loading and a whey protein in water with no carbs after your workout. Another article says to take in .6 grams of a dextrose type sugar right when you set down you last weight. So for a 200 lb bb, that would be 120 grams of fast insulin spiking carbs. Then about 30 minutes later drink your whey shake. Any thoughts on this?

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big

Post workout I take 80g of dextrose and 40g of whey in water. This is taken immediately after my last set. I then eat a proper meal an hour or two later.

About an hour prior to lifting I have a normal meal, which to me is around 500 calories, with plenty of slow-acting carbs and protein.

I also used to sip on dextrose and whey during my workout, but have noticed no difference since dropping this.

hackskii

I feel carbs more than protein PWO, they go in faster and insulin is anticatabolic, or puts you in a anabolic environment.
My feelings are carbs post workout and protein later but protein (fast acting) is ok PWO.
No fats as this will slow down the spiking of the blood sugars and have an impact on the insulin (slowing down the carbs).

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Scott


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winger

Wow, I like this sh1t.

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ONE SMART COOKIE

Gonna stick a spanner in the works here,lmao

PROTEIN PROTEIN AND MORE PROTEIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You`ve just torn down muscle tissue,ie,internal protein,so repair it with protein the bodies screaming out for it at this time,

Protein=from the greek word PROTEUS=meaning first or most important.

Fina

exactly cooki, but even more important than getting the protein in....is getting it to where its needed!
thats where you need very simple carbs.

basically when you work out glycogen and glucose is burned for energy...this obviously causes blood glucose levels to drop, which in turn makes your insulin levels drop.
when insulin drops, cortisol rises - which you DO NOT want! cortisol is catabolic which means when this starts to take over, it will break down muscle to use as energy (muscle > protein > glucose > energy) ! (seriously dont want that ;-)

therefore immediately following a workout you need to suppress the cortisol, raise the insulin levels and pump protein back to the muscle for repair.
the best way to dramatically increase insulin and thereby decrease cortisol is to get some simple carbs down your neck ASAP - the quicker you do it, the quicker your body gets to a anabolic state and muscle repair (and growth!!) can occur!
also you really dont want anything else at this time, just simple carbs and fast absorbing protein - whey.
if you start adding complex carbs then you are just delaying things, they take far too long to break down which means insulin will not be released in a big hit like we need.
goes with out saying fat etc. as well is a no-no as it takes a hell of a lot to break down time wise and process wise.

the two best sources of simple carbs are dextrose and maltodextrin, health stores sell dextrose but i had to get my malto online but apparantly some brewer shops sell it (altho the brewery i work at doesnt use it?! go figure!)

the ratio i use is:

carbs (50/50 malto/dextrose) - 5g carbs per 10lbs body weight
whey - half the carbs (so if 100g carbs, use 50g protein)
water - fill the mixer up.....and then some!

the way i like to drink it, up to you though is to chug 1/2 immediately, then sip on the rest over 50 mins or so. Have any vits at this point as well, because your body will be pretty defficient.
at the end of this, have your meal!

Hope that answers your question mate, went into quite a bit of detail but hope you followed!
any questions shout, nutrition is my stronger point

Z3R0-CooL

PWO both of them together...

i take 140gr dextrose with 60-70gr protein... when bulking that is..

i am 210lbs... and i am not that fat ~15-16%

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big

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...importance.htmThat's a really good article on the topic.

winger

Wow big. He says 0.8g of carbohydrate per 1 kilogram of body weight and 0.4g of protein per 1 kilogram of body weight.
I agree on the fact it should be a liquid. I agree that there should be no fats for faster absorption. But for some reason, dextrose or maltodextrin the second you set down the weight and a water in whey 30 minutes later just makes more sense to me.

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big

Yes - and that's exactly what I run... 80g of dextrose and 40g of whey. I weight 100kg (220lbs). I find that works great, and is backed up by the references he listed.


How come you'd prefer to separate them?

ONE SMART COOKIE

Ok then dont want to seem argumentative but!!!!!!!

If you take in carbs post workout,yeah you are increasing insulin to supposable reduce catabolism,but with that your shutting down any chance of your body producing and using all that lovelly natural growth hormone you`ve just stimulated through training,so your not only stopping that from increasing muscle mass but also from reducing bodyfat.

Also insulin is a storage hormone so you may push carbs and protein into muscle cells but also your going to also push some of it into fat cells,so you get fatter aswell as increasing some muscular size.

Plus chances are also if your using whey protein then it alone will stimulate insulin production cos its an inferior/incomplete protein,imho,and I have seen studies that it does convert to sugar when injested rather than staying as protein,protein mix all the way for me.

Also,take a look far far back to our genetic ancestors and compare yourselves to then in that they went out on a hunt,you go to the gym,they run around and exhaust themselves,you batter yourselves with weights,both of you at the end are in the same catabolic envirtoment,you need food,the difference being he ate meat and lots of it,you mess things up and drink a carb/protein mix,science hs proven time and time again we didnt have fat cavemen,but we have fat bodybuilders.

big

Whey isn't incomplete. But I will totally agree that it does get converted to sugar just like any other form of protein, if the body needs to do so. It IS a very inefficient process though, and also very expensive (in money terms.. to buy) as protein costs a lot more than carbs.

After lifting, your body's first priority is replenishing muscular glycogen stores. If you take in whey only, your body is highly likely to convert some/all of it to glucose, as it needs to replenish glycogen. As said, it is an inefficient process, and HIGHLY more costly than dumping some dextrose in with the whey.

ONE SMART COOKIE

The body will only convert protein to sugar if there is an excess of protein but after training you can get away with upto 100grms protein in one sitting without this happening the body is primed for protein at this time so feed it protein not flipping carbs,plus the body will replace liver glycogen first before muscle glycogen as the liver is more important than the muscle,the body in general doesnt like an excess of muscles as it throws out its homeostasis,so come what may it aint interested in em.

winger

I have always liked separating carbs and protein. They digest at different speeds. I mix veggies and meats, but I dont mix fruits and veggies and fruit and meats.
I also dont do any post workout drinks. I eat some chicken right after I workout. Like OSC just suggested. I have been concidering taking some creatine and dextrose after a workout though. I dont take creatine eather. Main reason for me is it only works with dextrose for me and I avoid sugars so their you go. Creatine on its own doesn't do anything for me.

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hackskii

Actually, it is not cortisol it is glucagon that is high after a workout.
Cortisol is ok if it is elevated but not for long periods of time.

Glucagons opposite is insulin.

Two other conditions are known to trigger glucagon secretion:
Elevated blood levels of amino acids.
Exercise.

Glucagon is secreted in response to hypoglycemia or low blood concentrations of glucose.


Some of whey protein does get converted to glucose but not at any rate that will spike insulin, or replenish glycogen stores.
I have read (and cookie will disagree which is cool) that glucose and glucose polymers will replenish glycogen stores in the muscle and not the liver.
All else will go to the liver and muscles.

Me personally, I eat when I am hungry and after a workout I rarely eat.
I dont do shakes (although I have alot of the stuff laying around).
I usually just eat food.
This goes against all that was read above but this is just the way "I" do it.

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Scott


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