robdog

I wouldnt say hes a lousy promoter infact id say the opposite as you only have to look at the money he has made.

Hes not good for the sport though i agree there i mean when you have got so called world champs who have had 30+ fights and never beaten anybody you have to ask questions.

Where he does come into his own though is for fighters who are say fringe world class ie Scott Harrison for example who was a decent fighter nothing special mind but for fighter like this Warren is good for them as he at least gets them into big ticket selling fights and makes them a few quid but as for proper world class ie hatton and calzaghe hes been a hinderance imo.

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fgs5635

Warren imo is a very cautious promoter. He doesn't like to risk his fighters against the best in the buisness. Although this may spoil the fighters legacy somewhat, it certainly makes them many mnay millions fighting easier opponents.
The fighters never complain until they are filthy rich, then worry about their legacy They can't always have it both ways.
Its down to the markets really, we are very loyal fans over here and fights for JC and Hatton sell out instantly even if they are fighting some bum. The americans tend to be more demanding and expect bigger fights.

COLINSRI

The outcome is that Joe’s work-rate, mobility, and adaption to whatever strategy Hopkins chooses to employ, will dishearten and tire the exceptional Hopkins whom will no doubt make every effort to go out on his shield. Bewildered, fatigued, and hurt, Hopkins will begin to lose all sight of hope around the middle of the fight and will become more and more likely to be stopped with each passing second from midway on. The skinny, pasty ‘white boy’ from an obscure valley in South Wales will comprehensively destroy the loquacious, American superstar for whom colour will not be an issue after this fight owing to his newly-acquired literal likeness to a chameleon in that he’ll be muti-coloured as a result of extensive bruising to his head, face and body! There are not many certainties in the gambling capital of the world, Las Vegas, but Joe Calzaghe beating Bernard Hopkins is definitely one of them! As regal as Bernard Hopkins is, it’s Joe Calzaghe to win clearly on points or late stoppage and to be crowned King of the two legends.

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roguetrainer00

Calzaghe may be great. We don't know, because as others have said, he simply hasn't fought enough top level opposition. Thanks to the Warren effect. But it's not all Warrens fault, who is a good "risk-reward" promoter,,,Calzaghe and his dad know what the score is as regards legacy.
Give Cazaghe credit though, at least he's faced good opposition (mainly) since the Lacy fight. Calzaghe's best asset imho is his judgement of distance, use of angles, which when combined with his handspeed make him a very awkward opponent. These assets, combined with workrate leave the great old man Hopkins with little chance.

anabolic lion

People should not under estimate old popkins , i think it will be alot closer than people think

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ARNIE

i think the fall out between warren and king may have hurt warren? but id say when those fighters went with sky the man in the street suffered,payper view made greedy promotors alot of not very well known fighters,due to little exposure to the man in the street.
Look at the ben,eubank,naseem,wharten,piper,bruno,mason,watson ,even gary stretch! and many others they were all very well known due to the fact they were on saturday FIGHT NIGHT on terrestriel tv,
and if calzaghe had a better promoter and took a little less the whole of britain would have been behind him years ago, instead of now when his career is at an end.

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Britbb

Kessler not world class?

Kessler would bang the crap out of hopkins, pavlik, taylor, any of those guys.

Unfortunately roy jones ducked calzaghe years ago (when jones was at his peak) because calzaghe was seen as a risky southpaw with not much money in the fight compared to big american bouts.

But the last few fights joe has will culminate in the climax of an unbeaten legacy. He will beat hopkins, then go on to beat pavlik, then go on to beat roy jones jr (or another light heavy fight such as daswon or tarver, although its pointless fighting tarver if he beats hopkins because tarver got destroyed by hopins in his last fight). Then he will retire.

With a nice unbeaten record and will have beaten names like pavlik, hopkins, kessler, roy jones jr, lacy and eubank.

robdog

Kessler is World Class for a Supermiddle mate but hes nothing special if were talking lb for lb.

Pavlick and Taylor are Middleweights really so he should beat them.

The problem Joe has faced is although beating the best names at his weight he came into the Supermiddles when all the glamour had virtually gone out of it and the old glamour names he did beat ie Eubank, Brewer etc were imo past there best when he fought them and the likes of Lacey was just hype as hes now classed as a joke in the game tbh.

All this being said mind, you can only beat whats in front of you and hes done that but he and Warren should have chased the bigger fights along time ago as sadly you have to be a big draw in the States to get any decent credit which is wrong but thats the way it is and it wasnt until he beat joker lacey that the yanks started taking notice.

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roguetrainer00

robdog, you've just hit the nail squarely on the head again in your last post. In fact, I agree with all of the points you've made in this thread, except one. About Calzaghe being the greatest SM of all time. SM isn't a classic weight division, not sure how long it's been around. If it's only been around a decade, then ok, maybe Calzaghe is the greatest SM. But that's a bit misleading, as when people talk of the best of all time, that implies the best for generations upon generations. Like SRR, Ali etc. The frustrating thing about Calzaghe is that only now near the end of his career, is he taking on legacy-defining fights. As we know, this is the "Warren way"

Britbb

Very true. But joe did chase a superfight with roy jones jr back in the day, jones ducked him constantly.

Why would jones put his credibility on the line at his peak against a tricky southpaw foriegn fighter when the money wouldnt be a big payday either. So it never happened.

As for hopkins, he is a great fighter. But the best people hes fought and won against are:

1. de la hoya
2. trinidad
3. eastman
4. winky wright
5. tarver

De la hoya was fighting a natural middleweight and he himself was way out of his weight category.

Trinidad was a class fighter for sure but not a natural middleweight.

Eastman, good fighter but not great.

Wright, again way out of his weight division, hes a light middleweight but fought at light heavy.

Tarver, not a good record, he beat jones twice because of his style, other than that he hasnt done much and was crap against hokins.

I just hope calzaghe gets to fight pavlik and jones (or dawson) after this fight against hopkins.

If calzaghe beats hopkins, pavlik and jones (or dawson, if dawson live sup to his hype, he might not), then i would say he is definately in the top 3 super middleweights of all time, possibly the best. Id say he earns his right to be the number 1 lbs 4 lbs fighter in the world with those wins under his belt (if he can do it), he overtakes mayweather, pacquia and marquez.

Mayweather still has 1 more MASSIVE fight to contend with (other than the rematch against de la hoya, which id say is around 55/45 in matweathers favour), he MUST fight unbeaten banger fernando cotto if he wants to truly relinquish all his opponents and call himself the lbs4lbs number 1.

I think calzaghe has the chance now to fight all the big names in the sport, pavlik, hopkins, jones (not so big anymore though), either woods, tarver, dawson (those 3 at light heavy). If he does this then he has the chance to say he beat EVERYONE around and ducked NO ONE! And that he won every single fight and was totally unbeaten.

Calzaghe has said he only wants 1 or 2 more fights after this one, that sets it up v nicely for a match up against pavlik (who beat jermaine taylor twice, so no point in fighting taylor as pavlik is clearly the better fighter) and then a showdown final fight with roy jones (if jones can beat taylor, jones is set to fight taylor at super middleweight)...so by jones beating taylor he shows that he has the right to step upto calzaghe...this can be calzaghes final and farewell victory, which will be over jones.

No need to fight winky wright as he was beaten comrehensively by hopkins, no need to fight taylor as he was beaten twice by pavlik, so by beating hopkins and pavlik he proves he is better than any of the others aswell...then for a final farewell fight against roy jones jnr (a fight that shoulda happened a decade ago!).

I almost forgot, pacquia is fighting marquez in a rematch! That will be brilliant.

Just my opinions of course.

roguetrainer00

Britb, I never said Kessler wasn't world class. About Jones ducking Cazaghe, who knows, that's just hearsay. And I agree that Calzaghe would beat the guys you listed. My point is that Calzaghe has had a "protected" career, and has taken too few risks. This is what Warren does with his fighters. It's a good business strategy. You don't risk tarnishing your products value until near the end of the products lifetime, when you have much less to lose. Hence we see the big fights near the end of Calzaghe's career. As robdog said, if Calzaghe was fringe world-class only(like Scott Harrison), the Warren approach would be perfect for him. Problem is Calzaghe is a lot better than SH.

robdog

I know what your saying mate and im a big Calzaghe fan but the Jones fight he chased for instance, thats if he chased it at all and knowing Warrens tactics he would have asked for rediculous terms knowing Jones people would have said no then he can always say Jones was ducking Calzaghe. Thats what Warren does hes very clever and good at it too.

I rate Joe very highly but he will never get the true recognitioon he deserves because he is only now at the end of his career actually fighting outside of the UK.

Yes i think he would beat Pavlivk and Taylor and Jones but imo Jones is shot and Pavlivk and Taylor although the 2 best middleweights around are not that good as to make you a lb for lb best in the world imo but its just my opinion.

Real boxing is your Hagler, Hearns, Duran and leanord period. Your Marquez, Pacquia, Barrera and Morales period etc etc. Nobody ducking nobody and no excuses they would all have faught each other for pride alone and you can believe that. Of course 10 million dollars helps lol.

Its not Joes fault hes not been in a glamour devision and i still say he would have beat any super middle past and presant.

As for Mayweather and i think you mean Miguel Angel Cotto i think hes made for Mayweather id give Cotto maybe a 20% chance at winning at best.

Mayweather is some fighter and truely the best lb for lb bar none imo. I mean he beat De La Hoya at light middle weight when he started at featherweight i think it was. Thats some skill there especially considering hes not known as a knock out merchant.

Mayweather has the best record around you only have to look to see that.

For me the fights Joe has the options of when he beats Hopkins and i think he will are not big enough names to give him the best lb for lb.

Like i say Jones Jr is way past it. Taylor has got no fight in him at all. Pavlick is a decent fighter but no mega superstar and Tarver is ok when he feels like it.

Ive got lots of respect for Joe and ive been to see him before and hes in the top 5 best lb for lb in the world no doubt but imo should not knock Mayweather off the top.

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roguetrainer00

On quality of opponent faced I'd put Pacquiao ahead of Mayweather as p4p number one. In his last few fights, he's fought Barrera, Morales three times, Marquez and Larios. Mayweather has had a more protected career than Pacquiao even though he has moved through the divisions imho.

Golden Man

Brittb true what youve written.Seems that the americans think they are the dons where boxing is concerned and keseller not word class uhh thats wrong.

Hatton wasnt world class one dimensional same as dela hoya. Calzaghe's style is the only reason why he hasnt been crowned as the best pound for pound.If he threw one punch in the standard still and knocked people out he'd be crowned the best pound for pound but because he throws several punches some close to cuffing he aint rated.

In my eyes he is the best

robdog

Hatton is def workd class at Light Welter he just hasnt got the dig when he goes up a weight. hes no way one dimensional either as he comes in from differnet angles with his shots and has movement and when he wants to can box a bit aswell.

Your comment about lb for lbers having to be one punch wonders is totaly inaccurate imo as look at Mayweather who is universaly ranked as lb for lb best and hes one of the best pure boxers there is and certainly not a one punch knock out artist. I mean hes got combinations you have never seen before lol.

You cant say someone is lb for lb best just because they have gone 40 odd undefeated because its all down to who they have beat.

You have to be realistic about boxing and its very easy to get carried away and be patriotic i do it myself and i say Joe should be top 5 lb for lb but certainly not top.

Just take Joes 5 best wins for instance or even 10 for that matter and compare them to Mayweather and then tell me his best wins are against classier and better opponants than Floyds.

Like i say it pains me to say a yank is better than us at sport (no offence hacks)but if your a boxing fan you have to be logical imo and givbe credit where credit is due.

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