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  1. #16
    anything DTLV says supersedes my advice
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Terrier View Post
    That was an interesting read.
    But reading between the lines, are you essentially saying that there is flawed science in the IF approach which Berkhan chooses to ignore?
    Regarding Lyle McDonald, I agree that he comes across as a bit of a d1ck quite frequently. However in his defence I'm pretty sure that he has mental health issues. I don't mean that as a personal attack on him but rather as a statement of fact. He suffers/has suffered from really bad depression. He is a big animal rights supporter and in my book that means that he can't be an entirely negative person.
    There are tons of flaws in the studies that he posts. There are also loads of really good ones.

    The only scientifically PROVEN fact about why IF works is calorie deficit. It helps control calories. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I find it helps with energy levels too, but that is merely a widely reported anecdotal experience with scientific theory to back it up. In the same respect, i've seen quite a few similar studies that say the same thing about eating a big breakfast. Which has just as much validity. So you need to be objective.

    But being objective doesn't include ignoring the articles that don't fit your argument and waving around the ones that do.

  2. #17
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by gummyp View Post
    I think @IGotTekkers here had a fight with him facebook before and Lyle went really childish
    Yep, the kid is an absolute biatch. I beat him intellectually so many times in public he had to remove me as a friend. He is one of those that walks in like a big man, gets owned, and walks away calling for mum. I have no respect for the tosspot whatsoever even if I do agree with a lot of his nutritional smarts.

  3. #18
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    I've been IF'ing for about 2 years now. Done it for so long because i just got used to eating that way. Used it for both cutting and bulking. In the past week i have gone back to eating 'normally'. To be honest IF made fvck all difference whatever my goals were.

    I have come to my own conclusion that you can eat whenever and whatever you want as long as it matches what your daily kcals and macros are, fvcking around with timings and sh1t really doesnt matter.

    Eat healthy, lift weights, live healthy, have fun and treat yourself now and again is the best 'lifestyle' and 'diet' you can do.

  4. #19
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Lyle McDonald really has quite a background though, being a former collaborator of the great Dan Duchaine. Years ago, before he started writing books, he trialled Duchaine's BodyOpus program and wrote a very detailed journal of his experiences. He proved himself very scientifically adept and apparently even Duchaine conceded that Lyle understood his BodyOpus better than he did himself.
    It really is a shame that he has become so bitter and twisted.

  5. #20
    anything DTLV says supersedes my advice
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyFire View Post
    I've been IF'ing for about 2 years now. Done it for so long because i just got used to eating that way. Used it for both cutting and bulking. In the past week i have gone back to eating 'normally'. To be honest IF made fvck all difference whatever my goals were.

    I have come to my own conclusion that you can eat whenever and whatever you want as long as it matches what your daily kcals and macros are, fvcking around with timings and sh1t really doesnt matter.

    Eat healthy, lift weights, live healthy, have fun and treat yourself now and again is the best 'lifestyle' and 'diet' you can do.
    So. Much. This. ^^^^^^


    unfortunately too many people want a magic pill, 'super foods' or secret formula to convince them that they are being 100% committed or hardcore.

    People spend more effort on convincing themselves that meal timing, keto or chicken n sweet potatoes or IF is the 'final missing piece of the puzzle" rather than reading up from an objective point of view and realizing it matters very little

  6. #21
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    In my humble opinion one of the most common errors (at least to my mind) which many on here make is that they follow diets which are so damn bland that it's unbelievable. Apart from the sheer monotony, I'm sure that the lack of variety also leads to a lack of complete nutrition from micronutrients.
    I realise that time is a constraint for most of us which may limit choices for the first few meals of the day until we're home from work. But at least once a day it's worth spending slightly longer in the kitchen to actually make something worth eating. So many nice great things to eat which are fully compatible with our bodybuilder diets.

  7. #22
    anything DTLV says supersedes my advice
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Terrier View Post
    In my humble opinion one of the most common errors (at least to my mind) which many on here make is that they follow diets which are so damn bland that it's unbelievable. Apart from the sheer monotony, I'm sure that the lack of variety also leads to a lack of complete nutrition from micronutrients.
    I realise that time is a constraint for most of us which may limit choices for the first few meals of the day until we're home from work. But at least once a day it's worth spending slightly longer in the kitchen to actually make something worth eating. So many nice great things to eat which are fully compatible with our bodybuilder diets.
    There's that phrase again "bodybuilder diet"

    i love cooking, i find it stress reliving and rewarding

  8. #23
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by simonthepieman View Post
    There's that phrase again "bodybuilder diet"

    i love cooking, i find it stress reliving and rewarding
    I agree - the terminology kind of sucks lol.

  9. #24
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Terrier View Post
    That was an interesting read.
    But reading between the lines, are you essentially saying that there is flawed science in the IF approach which Berkhan chooses to ignore?
    I think @Learney was subtly referring to that in this article: http://www.phillearney.com/nutrition...-a-discussion/

    Fasting and Intermittent fasting as a dietary method has been something we’ve seen an awful lot about as of late and if I’m honest some great data and studies to support it. Shame that the one site I’ve seen heavily promoting it as a method uses a LOT of VERY indirect studies that have a loose association with the subject. Infact I read a few of the references and they where downright bad for what was trying to be validated tbh. But anyways
    “Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?” - Sam Harris

  10. #25
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by simonthepieman View Post
    So. Much. This. ^^^^^^


    unfortunately too many people want a magic pill, 'super foods' or secret formula to convince them that they are being 100% committed or hardcore.

    People spend more effort on convincing themselves that meal timing, keto or chicken n sweet potatoes or IF is the 'final missing piece of the puzzle" rather than reading up from an objective point of view and realizing it matters very little
    I do IF but I really see it a 'lifestyle diet' rather than something that's going to give you that edge in terms of body fat. It just is an easier way to live as you don't have to think about food all of the time (though I do haha) and having that 8hr window means I eat less and I feel much more in control. I don't imagine I'll do this forever but for the moment it works for me.
    “Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?” - Sam Harris

  11. #26
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by rectus View Post
    I do IF but I really see it a 'lifestyle diet' rather than something that's going to give you that edge in terms of body fat. It just is an easier way to live as you don't have to think about food all of the time (though I do haha) and having that 8hr window means I eat less and I feel much more in control. I don't imagine I'll do this forever but for the moment it works for me.
    Mate I actually think about food alot less now i'm not IF'ing!!

  12. #27
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    Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Think Alan Aragons articles are very good though, doesn't take things to extremes..

  13. #28
    Just an ordinary guy with nothing to lose...
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by IGotTekkers View Post
    Yep, the kid is an absolute biatch. I beat him intellectually so many times in public he had to remove me as a friend. He is one of those that walks in like a big man, gets owned, and walks away calling for mum. I have no respect for the tosspot whatsoever even if I do agree with a lot of his nutritional smarts.
    Kid?

    I used to read and post to misc.fitness.weights in the 90s, when I first heard about Lyle. Now true enough, he doesn't suffer fools, and maybe batters home his point, but I've not known him pursue an argument with fervour and be wrong.

    And I struggle HUGELY with the concept that you beat him intellectually.

  14. #29
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaff0 View Post
    Kid?

    I used to read and post to misc.fitness.weights in the 90s, when I first heard about Lyle. Now true enough, he doesn't suffer fools, and maybe batters home his point, but I've not known him pursue an argument with fervour and be wrong.

    And I struggle HUGELY with the concept that you beat him intellectually.
    You can struggle with you like mate I couldn't really care lol.

  15. #30
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    Re: Martin Berkhan VS Lyle McDonald

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaff0 View Post
    Kid?

    I used to read and post to misc.fitness.weights in the 90s, when I first heard about Lyle. Now true enough, he doesn't suffer fools, and maybe batters home his point, but I've not known him pursue an argument with fervour and be wrong.

    And I struggle HUGELY with the concept that you beat him intellectually.
    Are you Lyle in disguise?

 

 
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