Jobsworths who'd let a guy die!! :( - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Keyser Soze · 31-05-2006, 09:23 PM

So, it's Saturday morning, first day of the Bank Holiday...I'm feeling pretty good about everything. Go into my local Londis, and there's a poster on the front door about an Indian guy who needs a bone marrow transplant, or he'll die if he doesn't find a suitable donor, (honourable plug, www.hope4parag.com via the Anthony Nolan Bone Marrow Trust) and only 1 in 100, 000 people are intercompatible, you see a pic of him and his mrs at their wedding, all donors have to be between 18-40, preferably male, asian (don't see what the hell difference that should make!), I fit all three categories PLUS I've got time, so I drive half a mile to the donation centre. It might be me who saves this poor sods life.

Well, I go in, they ask my age (37), tick in the box, any blood diseases/aids/drug addictions, no and another box ticked, etc etc, fill out this long form that pretty much repeats all those questions and about 50 more, and then hand it to her. The bimbo assistant gets all ****y about, "Oh, haven't you read pages 7-9?" (like Parag is ever going to give a damn what I read before I saved his life!), I joke, "Naaaah, I never read the manual".

Anyway, she's taking me to get the jab, and I mention, "I've got a condition of my own; you can't inject me in the hollow of my elbow. I've got a phobia about it. You can stick the needle pretty much anywhere else, just not there".

"Oh, we can't go ahead if you've got a phobia about it".

"But it's possible to extract blood from the back of the arm, isn't it?"

"Yes, but we get more flow from the vein in your arm".

"Well, there's a vein in the back of my tricep - which is in my arm - why don't you take that?"

"Uhmmm...we can't".

I turn up the heat, I'm getting annoyed arguing with this little bint,

"So, if it turns out that whatever saves Parag is found in my system, you'd condemn him to death because you can't be bothered to wait a minute or two getting blood?"

"You'd only have a 1 in a hundred-th"

"Would you turn me away if that was YOUR brother dying?"

"We can't do it".

I decide to try one last tactic...

"I'm joining the Bone Marrow register sooner or later. My dna or whatever will be on the database, and if Parag dies for lack of a donor, someone sometime is going to run a post-mortem search of donors for stat analysis. If it turns out I'm the guy who could have saved him, you're going to remember this little chat. My conscience will be clear - YOU turned me away. What do you want to do?" My hand points to the donation cubicle.

Dumb silence. Dumb FVCKING silence. I shake my head in disgust.

"I just hope he finds a match"....and walk back to my car.

Not much gets me angry - but little jobsworths like her should be typing letters, not deciding who lives and who dies.

KS

LondonGeezer · 31-05-2006, 10:30 PM

omg what a ****in bitch!! damn you got a cool head mate i woulda told her whose gona die. that stinks seriously i would have gone ballistic on the ****in ****wipe!

you going to find out if your a match?

crazycacti · 31-05-2006, 11:08 PM

she was only doing her job....

that is how she is trained... maybe there is a reason why they can't take blood from your tricep...

how was it her fault?

She does her job and you make her feel like dog ****e on the bottom of a shoe....

how nice to make someones day better

LondonGeezer · 31-05-2006, 11:16 PM

end of the day it might have taken them longer to draw blood from the tricep or somewhere else but they would have got the same blood wherever they draw it from in his body.

samurai69 · 31-05-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycacti

she was only doing her job....

that is how she is trained... maybe there is a reason why they can't take blood from your tricep...

how was it her fault?

She does her job and you make her feel like dog ****e on the bottom of a shoe....

how nice to make someones day better

B*LL*CKS :rage:

Peg · 01-06-2006, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

all donors have to be between 18-40, preferably male, asian (don't see what the hell difference that should make!),

Being Asian has to do with genetics and markers on the blood cells for compatibility.

pookie69 · 01-06-2006, 12:46 PM

I don't think it's so much a case that she didn't want to take blood from elsewhere, moreso that she didn't know how to take blood from elsewhere. Either because she doesn't have the training or wasn't confident enough.

Still, that doesn't really excuse her actions. If she herself wasn't willing to do it, she should've looked to someone else for advice on how to proceed. I'd prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she isn't a person who'd let someone die if she could help it for the sake of following the rules.

Still - a sh!tty situation nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycacti

She does her job and you make her feel like dog ****e on the bottom of a shoe....

Brother - we're not talking about someone at MaccyD's getting shouted at for refusing to serve a breakfast order after 1pm

>>> someone's life is at stake here.

Keyser Soze · 01-06-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonGeezer

omg what a ****in bitch!! damn you got a cool head mate i woulda told her whose gona die. that stinks seriously i would have gone ballistic on the ****in ****wipe!

you going to find out if your a match?

Firstly, I'd ask you all to send out the word to ANY asian guys you know between 18 and 40. Secondly, when it comes to finding out if I can save this guy's life, I'm not letting some little dolly-bird stand in my way who can't think outside her tiny little box - the upper one I mean, although in fairness I imagine her lower one was pretty small too!

Seriously now, this entire incident is getting reported to the Trust, and if they don't want to take appropriate action (blood out the back of my arm and a bullet in her cv), I'll escalate to whatever watchdog body is responsible for overseeing charities. God knows how many other people who met the advertised criteria have been turned away just because that incompetent little ditz can't do her job, people who out of the goodness of their hearts and conscience pitched up to help a total stranger who did nothing wrong.

Somebody's head should roll for this, and it shouldn't be Parag's.

KS

LondonGeezer · 01-06-2006, 02:42 PM

yeh i totally feel what your saying mate. I'm asian myself 20yrs old but i gots a phobia of under surgery and stuff.. all those scars and stitches :S couldn't go through with it myself.

minor phobia of needles aswell but i am overcoming that lol.

i dont think its her who takes the blood, she's the receptionist who got you to fill in the form right? they have a qualified nurse to do all the blood drawing, not some receptionist and a qualified nurse KNOWS how to draw blood she's not stupid.

but yeh i dont sympathise for the woman 1 bit.

Peg · 01-06-2006, 08:11 PM

Had I been that woman, this is what I would have told you.

I do understand how you must feel about the whole thing but let's be realistic about it.

Her refusal to is simply based on antomical considerations that doctors recognize and observe.

The cubital and cephalic veins (elbow area veins) are near the surface and are large.
It is the safest, easiest, and best controlled location if complications of blood leakage and blot clots forming occur.
Fluid mechanics require a certain size vein to collect the blood needed in the viles required for the tests.
There is less likelihood of blood clots forming and tournicating the surrounding tissue.
The vein is large enough for future stem cell apheresis if you should happen to be a match.

Now why waste time and money on you in the screening if you are phobic of a needle stick in the area that is exclusively used for the harvest of bone marrow stem cells? The probability of you being a donor is low enough to turn you away if you cannot tolerate a jab in the elbow area.

If by some miracle you were to be compatible, you would have to sit for 3-5 hours with a machine hooked up through these veins on BOTH arms for apheresis of the stem cells.
The needle is a 16 gauge needle because stem cells are large.
The only large enough veins for stem cells harvest are in your neck, your femoral vein, or the one at the elbow which you are phobic about and is the definitive location for withdrawal of the blood. Now a doctor could place a port inside your skin but you'd have to be under doctor's care and most doctors won't do that because of insurance and legal issues when the elbow location is a better viable location for the jab.

You could donate the old fashion way by having them drill holes into your hip and take 50 to 100 plugs of bone marrow from you under general anesthesia, but that practice is surgery and requires hospitalization and the results are not as good as using apheresis and you pay the hospital costs.

The ONLY time blood is drawn from a different location is when all attempts made at the elbow area have failed and the patient is under a doctor's care.

You could use wrist and hand veins but those tend to have complications and clotting. Behind the arm is not a consideration for it because of the size of the veins and the depth of the vein within the back of the arm.

She refused you based on empirically based practices in the medical profession based on the anatomy of the human body, insurance dictates, safe medical practices, and the almighty wise use of time and resources to find acceptable donors and keep wasteful spending of the $$$$ to a minimum to keep the business in the black.

This is the reality of the medical profession as we know it.

Did you stop to ask the lady why it couldn't be done as you wanted or did you just storm out indignant at her seemingly lack of intelligence, the waste of your time, and the absurdity of missing the possibility of a match.
To think out of the box?
Have someone else do it? Only the doctor is allowed by law to draw blood elsewhere. Others may draw blood from other areas ONLY with doctor's consent and supervision.
You could ask if you could set up an appointment for a doctor to do it if you like at a later time at your expense, but your phobia prevents you from being a good candidate for apheresis and so even that would be another waste of your time.
It seems to me a better use of your time would be to overcome your phobia in case one of your family members or yourself should be in need of blood somewhere down the road.

The woman was doing her job based on medical and legal procedures that safeguard you and the medical profession. Unfortunately, the man in need may die because of society's desire for litigations when self rights are denied and because of fears society has about needles, pain, and surgery

You are just as responsible as the woman for determining if you are a match or not by not overcoming your phobia to help the man, in my opinion.
I think it is great that you would even take the time to volunteer for such a noble thing as bone marrow transplant, even blood donations are needed in the UK at this time. My hat's off to you KS for stepping up to the plate, but I also recognize the rigorous reality of becoming a donor as well. The saving of life is a shared responsibility. At what cost to you are you willing to save a life? It is easy to volunteer if there is no cost to you. Which is the more noble?

Keyser Soze · 01-06-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peg

I do understand how you must feel about the whole thing but let's be realistic about it.

I already have been, and will continue to be.

Quote:

Her refusal to is simply based on antomical considerations that doctors recognize and observe.

How do YOU know why she refused? Is telepathy one of your skills?

Quote:

The cubital and cephalic veins (elbow area veins) are near the surface and are large.
It is the safest, easiest, and best controlled location if complications of blood leakage and blot clots forming occur.

And what is the probability of me dying from a blood clot caused by a blood extraction from a non-elbow site? More than 10 in a million?

Quote:

Fluid mechanics require a certain size vein to collect the blood needed in the viles required for the tests.

Tell that to the little Dutch boy.

Quote:

There is less likelihood of blood clots forming and tournicating the surrounding tissue.
The vein is large enough for future stem cell apheresis if you should happen to be a match.

If I should happen to be a match, they can KO me with an anaesthetic (injected into the back of my arm!) before extraction.

Quote:

Now why waste time and money on you in the screening if you are phobic of a needle stick in the area that is exclusively used for the harvest of bone marrow stem cells? The probability of you being a donor is low enough to turn you away if you cannot tolerate a jab in the elbow area.

I'm glad you're not in charge of anything in the medical world.

Quote:

If by some miracle you were to be compatible,

Where the heck do miracles enter into this? I've a greater chance of being compatible than you or most people on this board. It's Parag who needs a miracle - to overcome the million-to-10 odds with such bimbos screening out potential donors. There was only one other guy there at the time - hardly backed up, was it?

Quote:

you would have to sit for 3-5 hours with a machine hooked up through these veins on BOTH arms for apheresis of the stem cells.
The needle is a 16 gauge needle because stem cells are large.

As above - anasthesia.

Quote:

The only large enough veins for stem cells harvest are in your neck, your femoral vein, or the one at the elbow

Fine - they can take it out of the first two with me conscious, and the latter only when I'm ko'ed.

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which you are phobic about and is the definitive location for withdrawal of the blood.

Well, if I do prove to be his saviour, I can tell you know my elbow will definitely NOT be the location if I'm awake - my cells, my rules.

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Now a doctor could place a port inside your skin but you'd have to be under doctor's care and most doctors won't do that because of insurance and legal issues when the elbow location is a better viable location for the jab.

That's ok...neck and femural artery, remember?

Quote:

You could donate the old fashion way by having them drill holes into your hip and take 50 to 100 plugs of bone marrow from you under general anthestisa, but that practice is surgery and requires hospitalization and the results are not as good as using apheresis and you pay the hospital costs.

I doubt Parag will care about a few grand in hospital fees.

Quote:

The ONLY time blood is drawn from a different location is when all attempts made at the elbow area have failed and the patient is under a doctor's care.

In who's professional medical opinon?

Quote:

You could use wrist and hand veins but those tend to have complications and clotting. Behind the arm is not a consideration for it because of the size of the veins and the depth of the vein within the back of the arm.

Depth of the vein? Last year I went for a blood test, another silly cow told me then that she couldn't extract from a site other than my elbow so I told her to get on with it...she missed. Blood gushing out, and I collapsed in a heap. Lucky I was in a fvcking hospital.

Quote:

She refused you based on empirically based practices in the medical profession based on the anatomy of the human body, insurance dictates, safe medical practices, and the almighty wise use of time and resources to find acceptable donors and keep wasteful spending of the $$$$ to a minimum to keep the business in the black.

She refused me because she didn't want to bother asking her nurse to spend a few more minutes extracting blood. These charities get extensive government funding, a lot of people are afraid of needles. Again, how many potential donors have been refused just because they are too lazy to take an extra step or two to remove blood?

Quote:

This is the reality of the medical profession as we know it.

The reality is that my biceps aren't yet 20" - but you don't see me sitting around saying, "oh, they'll always be 12"....

Quote:

Did you stop to ask the lady why it couldn't be done as you wanted or did you just storm out indignant at her seemingly lack of intelligence, the waste of your time, and the absurdity of missing the possibility of a match.

And did YOU stop to read the dialogue above detailing what I asked her, or did you simply assume that I hadn't tried everything possible short of forcing them at gunpoint to take my blood?

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Have someone else do it? Only the doctor is allowed by law to draw blood elsewhere.

I know. SHE didn't suggest that - I had to find that out after wrestling with the bureacracy.

Quote:

Others may draw blood from other areas ONLY with doctor's consent and supervision.
You could ask if you could set up an appointment for a doctor to do it if you like at a later time at your expense, but your phobia prevents you from being a good candidate for apheresis and so even that would be another waste of your time.
It seems to me a better use of your time would be to overcome your phobia in case one of your family members or yourself should be in need of blood somewhere down the road.

Ermmm...did I mention anaesthesia?

Quote:

The woman was doing her job based on medical and legal procedures that safeguard you and the medical profession.

No, the little cow wasn't prepared to go the extra inch to help Parag. She could have asked me to come back late when a Doctor was in, or get a test done privately.

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Unfortunately, the man in need may die because of society's desire for litigations when self rights are denied and because of fears society has about needles, pain, and surgery

He may also die from getting hit by a bus before then, Peg. But he'll probably die because there aren't enough people on the register.

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You are just as responsible as the woman for determining if you are a match or not by not overcoming your phobia to help the man, in my opinion.

Well, your opinion, is exactly that; your OPINION. And it's wrong, as demonstrated above.

Quote:

I think it is great that you would even take the time to volunteer for such a noble thing as bone marrow transplant, even blood donations are needed in the UK at this time. My hat's off to you KS for stepping up to the plate, but I also recognize the rigorous reality of becoming a donor as well.

Again, let's improve reality, not just accept it.

And as always, I appreciate and value your thoughts, P....

Cheers,

Jaybee.

Peg · 01-06-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Her refusal to is simply based on antomical considerations that doctors recognize and observe.

How do YOU know why she refused? Is telepathy one of your skills?

This information was given to me over the phone by a doctor who is in charge of the screening and the extraction of blood at the blood bank here in Metairie.
I also took time to google the subject matter and review my hemotology lab notes and textbooks.

Quote:

The cubital and cephalic veins (elbow area veins) are near the surface and are large.
It is the safest, easiest, and best controlled location if complications of blood leakage and blot clots forming occur.

And what is the probability of me dying from a blood clot caused by a blood extraction from a non-elbow site? More than 10 in a million?

Nope, the probability in comparison to the elbow is much greater for complications in a non-elbow site because of the size of the vessels, the vascularitie of the vessels, expertise of the technician in handling non-elbow sites, and empirical statistics taken over the years that insurance companies use.

Quote:

Fluid mechanics require a certain size vein to collect the blood needed in the viles required for the tests.

Tell that to the little Dutch boy.

Dutch boy is irrelevent to this discussion.
Size of vessel and pressure of liquid will affect the flow of liquid out of the vein into the vile for screening and into the machine that performs apheresis to extract the stem cells if you are a match. The larger vessel can withstand greater pressures on it as well therefore it's likelihood of collasping is less than an non-elbow site.

Quote:

If I should happen to be a match, they can KO me with an anaesthetic (injected into the back of my arm!) before extraction.

The point about being a match is that the vessel is not big enough in the back of your arm for the apheresis of large stem cells.

Quote:

Now why waste time and money on you in the screening if you are phobic of a needle stick in the area that is exclusively used for the harvest of bone marrow stem cells? The probability of you being a donor is low enough to turn you away if you cannot tolerate a jab in the elbow area.

I'm glad you're not in charge of anything in the medical world.

You are making a comment that is not about the reality of the medical world but a personal attack against me and not against the reality I've stated.
This is the reality of the medical world. I didn't say I endorsed it nor agreed with it. I'm just stating that this is how it is.

Quote:

If by some miracle you were to be compatible,

Where the heck do miracles enter into this? I've a greater chance of being compatible than you or most people on this board. It's Parag who needs a miracle - to overcome the million-to-10 odds with such bimbos screening out potential donors. There was only one other guy there at the time - hardly backed up, was it?

I do not disagree with you. But she is not a bimbo and you are attacking her injustly in your emotional outrage. You have focused your energy on the wrong object. You should be attacking the board that governs and approves the procedures in screening not the woman following procedures.

I agree with you if you screened as a donor you would gladly be put under for the apheresis in the arms.

You are preaching to the choir. I'm just telling you what the doctor told me.

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Depth of the vein? Last year I went for a blood test, another silly cow told me then that she couldn't extract from a site other than my elbow so I told her to get on with it...she missed. Blood gushing out, and I collapsed in a heap. Lucky I was in a fvcking hospital.

Was it spurting or just bleeding? It is not uncommon for people to faint at the sight of their own blood gushing from their arm. She was an inept technician. Had she tried elsewhere the complications would be even more acute in her ineptness. You prove my point. ONLY doctors or specialised technicians under the approval of a doctor in a hospital are allowed by law to perform non-elbow extractions.

IT is neck and fermoral VEIN, not the artery in this case. The artery would definitely require a doctor's supervision not a nurse.

I did read you dialog. No where did you ask WHY? You just asked can you do it somewhere else and then started to threaten her in your frustration and anger when she told you no. You asked the wrong questions, KS.

I agree with you about another person doing it. My point exactly. If it had been me, I would had suggested to go to your doctor with the kit and have him do it and send the kit back. Ofcourse any site doctor would have to be asked. I would call and ask if the doctor will do it. Before I would rant against her, I would ask her why she didn't offer that advice. It may be that she is told not to based on current policy, but you wouldn't know that if you do not take the time to ask.

Quote:

The ONLY time blood is drawn from a different location is when all attempts made at the elbow area have failed and the patient is under a doctor's care.

In who's professional medical opinon?

The doctor I talked to and the insurance company policies of that doctor.

I've had blood gush from my veins. I've actually had arterial spurts, which are much more serious. Having the knowledge I do about the human body, I did not crumble to the ground. I have a strong constitution; however, since I watched the ceasarian delivery of one of my sons.
I love the human body. It is fascinating to me.

Quote:

She refused me because she didn't want to bother asking her nurse to spend a few more minutes extracting blood. These charities get extensive government funding, a lot of people are afraid of needles. Again, how many potential donors have been refused just because they are too lazy to take an extra step or two to remove blood?

Now, look at who is making the assumption. It is a highly subjective opinion on your part. I think that is a big assumption without proof. Do you have ESP? I called to varify my "opinion".

Again how many more potential donors have NOT even GONE to donate because of their laziness to face their fear of needles. I say such fears are controlling enemies and should be conquered.

You have missed the whole point to my post, KS.
Your post in its lament about screening procedures made me take a look at WHY those procedures are the way they are. To ask "Why" is the beginning of any change.
I took the time to call a doctor and ask him why the elbow location is the best, though I already knew from my premed training and hemotology class.

I knew you would want an "expert", one in the know, giving you the information since you see me as just a housewife.

I am relaying the information to you as a courtesy so that you can increase your knowledge on the subject to better affect the change that you seek and give you information for you to use to ask more questions of the powers that be to affect that change for the better.

I am in agreement with you that we should improve the reality. It must be through the beauracracy of government regulation and insurance statistics, not a poor lass trapped in the policies and procedures of her job. That is the cold dark reality of the world in which we live about this whole bloody thing that allows a man to miss a possible donor.

It really is not about opinions that are right or wrong. It is about the sharing of information to make the world a better place in which to live.

As always, your posts stir my thoughts to greater levels of awareness.
Thank you, KS, for stimulating my mind. It's always a pleasure to converse with you.

LondonGeezer · 01-06-2006, 11:18 PM

time for me to step out of this convo lol... too much info man. all i kno is there's more then 1 place u can draw blood from without a doubt.

samurai69 · 02-06-2006, 12:42 PM

You are talking about 2 different countries rules and regulations

US.............MOST LITIGIOUS COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
UK.............Getting there

Probably in the uk the person was a jobs worth
In the US there was /is a fear of litigation

.

31-05-2006, 09:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Keyser Soze Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Harrow, London, England. Posts: 729	Jobsworths who'd let a guy die!! :( So, it's Saturday morning, first day of the Bank Holiday...I'm feeling pretty good about everything. Go into my local Londis, and there's a poster on the front door about an Indian guy who needs a bone marrow transplant, or he'll die if he doesn't find a suitable donor, (honourable plug, www.hope4parag.com via the Anthony Nolan Bone Marrow Trust) and only 1 in 100, 000 people are intercompatible, you see a pic of him and his mrs at their wedding, all donors have to be between 18-40, preferably male, asian (don't see what the hell difference that should make!), I fit all three categories PLUS I've got time, so I drive half a mile to the donation centre. It might be me who saves this poor sods life. Well, I go in, they ask my age (37), tick in the box, any blood diseases/aids/drug addictions, no and another box ticked, etc etc, fill out this long form that pretty much repeats all those questions and about 50 more, and then hand it to her. The bimbo assistant gets all ****y about, "Oh, haven't you read pages 7-9?" (like Parag is ever going to give a damn what I read before I saved his life!), I joke, "Naaaah, I never read the manual". Anyway, she's taking me to get the jab, and I mention, "I've got a condition of my own; you can't inject me in the hollow of my elbow. I've got a phobia about it. You can stick the needle pretty much anywhere else, just not there". "Oh, we can't go ahead if you've got a phobia about it". "But it's possible to extract blood from the back of the arm, isn't it?" "Yes, but we get more flow from the vein in your arm". "Well, there's a vein in the back of my tricep - which is in my arm - why don't you take that?" "Uhmmm...we can't". I turn up the heat, I'm getting annoyed arguing with this little bint, "So, if it turns out that whatever saves Parag is found in my system, you'd condemn him to death because you can't be bothered to wait a minute or two getting blood?" "You'd only have a 1 in a hundred-th" "Would you turn me away if that was YOUR brother dying?" "We can't do it". I decide to try one last tactic... "I'm joining the Bone Marrow register sooner or later. My dna or whatever will be on the database, and if Parag dies for lack of a donor, someone sometime is going to run a post-mortem search of donors for stat analysis. If it turns out I'm the guy who could have saved him, you're going to remember this little chat. My conscience will be clear - YOU turned me away. What do you want to do?" My hand points to the donation cubicle. Dumb silence. Dumb FVCKING silence. I shake my head in disgust. "I just hope he finds a match"....and walk back to my car. Not much gets me angry - but little jobsworths like her should be typing letters, not deciding who lives and who dies. KS

01-06-2006, 08:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,467	Had I been that woman, this is what I would have told you. I do understand how you must feel about the whole thing but let's be realistic about it. Her refusal to is simply based on antomical considerations that doctors recognize and observe. The cubital and cephalic veins (elbow area veins) are near the surface and are large. It is the safest, easiest, and best controlled location if complications of blood leakage and blot clots forming occur. Fluid mechanics require a certain size vein to collect the blood needed in the viles required for the tests. There is less likelihood of blood clots forming and tournicating the surrounding tissue. The vein is large enough for future stem cell apheresis if you should happen to be a match. Now why waste time and money on you in the screening if you are phobic of a needle stick in the area that is exclusively used for the harvest of bone marrow stem cells? The probability of you being a donor is low enough to turn you away if you cannot tolerate a jab in the elbow area. If by some miracle you were to be compatible, you would have to sit for 3-5 hours with a machine hooked up through these veins on BOTH arms for apheresis of the stem cells. The needle is a 16 gauge needle because stem cells are large. The only large enough veins for stem cells harvest are in your neck, your femoral vein, or the one at the elbow which you are phobic about and is the definitive location for withdrawal of the blood. Now a doctor could place a port inside your skin but you'd have to be under doctor's care and most doctors won't do that because of insurance and legal issues when the elbow location is a better viable location for the jab. You could donate the old fashion way by having them drill holes into your hip and take 50 to 100 plugs of bone marrow from you under general anesthesia, but that practice is surgery and requires hospitalization and the results are not as good as using apheresis and you pay the hospital costs. The ONLY time blood is drawn from a different location is when all attempts made at the elbow area have failed and the patient is under a doctor's care. You could use wrist and hand veins but those tend to have complications and clotting. Behind the arm is not a consideration for it because of the size of the veins and the depth of the vein within the back of the arm. She refused you based on empirically based practices in the medical profession based on the anatomy of the human body, insurance dictates, safe medical practices, and the almighty wise use of time and resources to find acceptable donors and keep wasteful spending of the $$$$ to a minimum to keep the business in the black. This is the reality of the medical profession as we know it. Did you stop to ask the lady why it couldn't be done as you wanted or did you just storm out indignant at her seemingly lack of intelligence, the waste of your time, and the absurdity of missing the possibility of a match. To think out of the box? Have someone else do it? Only the doctor is allowed by law to draw blood elsewhere. Others may draw blood from other areas ONLY with doctor's consent and supervision. You could ask if you could set up an appointment for a doctor to do it if you like at a later time at your expense, but your phobia prevents you from being a good candidate for apheresis and so even that would be another waste of your time. It seems to me a better use of your time would be to overcome your phobia in case one of your family members or yourself should be in need of blood somewhere down the road. The woman was doing her job based on medical and legal procedures that safeguard you and the medical profession. Unfortunately, the man in need may die because of society's desire for litigations when self rights are denied and because of fears society has about needles, pain, and surgery You are just as responsible as the woman for determining if you are a match or not by not overcoming your phobia to help the man, in my opinion. I think it is great that you would even take the time to volunteer for such a noble thing as bone marrow transplant, even blood donations are needed in the UK at this time. My hat's off to you KS for stepping up to the plate, but I also recognize the rigorous reality of becoming a donor as well. The saving of life is a shared responsibility. At what cost to you are you willing to save a life? It is easy to volunteer if there is no cost to you. Which is the more noble? Last edited by Peg; 01-06-2006 at 08:33 PM.

31-05-2006, 10:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	omg what a **in bitch!! damn you got a cool head mate i woulda told her whose gona die. that stinks seriously i would have gone ballistic on the in **wipe! you going to find out if your a match?

31-05-2006, 11:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
crazycacti Fat and bulking... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Isle of Man/Newcastle Posts: 1,417	she was only doing her job.... that is how she is trained... maybe there is a reason why they can't take blood from your tricep... how was it her fault? She does her job and you make her feel like dog ****e on the bottom of a shoe.... how nice to make someones day better

31-05-2006, 11:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	end of the day it might have taken them longer to draw blood from the tricep or somewhere else but they would have got the same blood wherever they draw it from in his body.

01-06-2006, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	yeh i totally feel what your saying mate. I'm asian myself 20yrs old but i gots a phobia of under surgery and stuff.. all those scars and stitches :S couldn't go through with it myself. minor phobia of needles aswell but i am overcoming that lol. i dont think its her who takes the blood, she's the receptionist who got you to fill in the form right? they have a qualified nurse to do all the blood drawing, not some receptionist and a qualified nurse KNOWS how to draw blood she's not stupid. but yeh i dont sympathise for the woman 1 bit.

01-06-2006, 11:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	time for me to step out of this convo lol... too much info man. all i kno is there's more then 1 place u can draw blood from without a doubt.

02-06-2006, 12:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
samurai69 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mid Portugal - by the sea Posts: 3,075	You are talking about 2 different countries rules and regulations US.............MOST LITIGIOUS COUNTRY IN THE WORLD UK.............Getting there Probably in the uk the person was a jobs worth In the US there was /is a fear of litigation .

02-06-2006, 03:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,467