The BodyBuilding World According To Cookie - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

ONE SMART COOKIE · 23-07-2004, 09:08 PM

The Bodybuilding World According To Cookie

Disclaimer

The following information is all my own views as I see it and how I see it should be done for maximum results with the minimum amount of effort. I am putting this forward as an alternative approach to all the twaddle and conflicting articles you are probably seeing on a monthly basis in the mainstream magazines which more than likely leave you scratching your head at the end of it. The following is for informational purposes and is not intended to heal or cure and before embarking on any type of physical training a visit to your physician for a medical check up is a good idea.

All the best Cookie

In the beginning god created man in his own image a picture of health and beauty then man created Dianabol and all that went out of the window he became bloated and ugly a bit like those old gargoyles you see on old cathedrals but now there on stage and we pay to see them kill themselves but enough about the drug side of things I am not here to preach or tell you what to take just to pass on a few titbits that hopefully I`ll help you on your way to getting the physique of your choice with or without drugs.

I like you am just a regular guy that has a passion for this sport we call bodybuilding. I live it and breath it, no matter how many times I try to get away from it for what ever reason it always pulls me back so might has well just go with the flow and see were it takes me.

This little book/leaflet of words is also going to be a little like that no fancy chapters or headings just going with the flow as the thoughts enter my head and reach my fingers this will also make sure that you have to read it all the way through word for word just to find out it entire contents and stop you from just flicking through to the juicy bits like we have all done in the past including me.

So were do we start? Hmmm that’s a tricky one, how about diet? Why not? That’s always a good one. How many of you reading this are banging your head against a wall trying to find that ultimate combination of fats/carbs and protein? Well there isn’t one, the body just doesnt work like that that would be just too easy. Nature’s not that stupid to let us get away with it that easy. How do we really find what we really need to eat? You listen to your body that is it. It is so simple. No fancy equations no food charts and graphs no guru writing out complicated diet sheets and charging you the earth for doing so, chances are he writes the same one down for more than just you but tells you its your personalised diet just for your needs. We all know we need protein to build muscle that’s the main ingredient but, how much? More than often than not a lot less than you actually think, we don’t need to bombard our systems with tons of protein day after day it just cant take it. The body will start to rebel and your gains will start to slow down and we don’t want that do we? No! Protein comes from the Greek word Proteus meaning first or most important so it should be just that not just the whole shabang. If we eat too much it has a good chance of turning to fat or urea and excreted out through the kidneys, which can then cause problems internally. We don’t want either of those do we? So how do we get around that situation? Simple we cycle our protein intake like people do their drug usage, for the most part throughout the day we ingest 30 grams per meal and then at that magical time just after training when the window of opportunity opens up and the body is crying out for protein to help repair the damage we have just inflicted upon it we feed it all it can take and if that means banging down a 100 grams of the stuff we do it because that is what the body wants not what we are telling it to do, get my drift? But you say "30 grams is not enough at a meal, I`ll shrink, I can digest more than that". No you cant believe me all that was brought about by the supplement companies in the late 80s and early 90s to get you to buy more of their products and put more money in their pockets, if you don’t believe me just check out the articles from the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s to see for yourself that they always said 30 grams per meal and no more and then just look to when it changed and you will see that I am right and it was when we had the big introduction of a lot of new products and the meal replacement fad, bet your feeling a bit ****ed off now right now thinking of all the money you have just wasted on food and protein powders. Well not anymore. Now you know different don’t you. So where do you go from here? Well for a start your going to have a lot more money in your pocket so that’s a good thing and a positive thing and positive is good for your hormones so two birds killed with one stone there.

So what now? You look at your present meal structure and remove the excess protein from all your meals prior to training and save some of it for after training when it is truly needed. The next question then is do I take my after training protein as a shake or as a solid food? Me personally I would say food as a when it is possible but if not then it has to be a shake there is no other way around this food is paramount at this critical time, but what type of protein shake do I use there are so many out there and they all say that they are the best? Why wouldn’t they? They want your hard earned money! Do I go with a whey shake? A whey and carb shake? What? Well whey lets face it is just the left over liquid from the manufacture of cottage cheese which has been dried through many different process and has had who knows what done to it and stuck in a tub with artificial sweeteners and a fancy label stuck on it with lots of scientific writing to make it sound good. So as you can see me personally doesn’t think that whey is a good idea and on top off all that it is digested way too quickly. The body just doesn’t have to do anything with it so it goes in one end and 10-30 mins later its out again all done and dusted, has the body really got all it needs from it in such a small space of time? Me thinks not. So what do we use then? Well I prefer to use a milk or calcium caseinate with egg protein which is slowly digested and absorbed for proper assimilation by the body and the muscles needing it plus the body has been allowed to do its natural job of digesting and processing all the food it takes in not just having it dumped on it. Now by this point some of you will be moaning to yourself that "I cant drink milk it gives me gas stomach ache and even the ****s", well there are a couple of reasons behind this and, some ways around it. First, most people drink their shakes too fast. They just chug them down then rush off to the showers or home, wrong, wrong, wrong! Sip it slowly sat down and allow the body to get all the correct juices flowing as it slowly filters through to the stomach were it will be digested, secondly don’t blend it in the blender this creates air pockets which get into you stomach and also it breaks down the fat molecules in the milk which make it difficult to digest, this is the process that happens in the manufacture of bottled milk and why so many people cannot drink milk nowadays, for those that have access to it use raw milk, green top to those in the UK, this has not been tampered with in anyway and is as nature intended it to be a healthy drink. What do we do if we don’t have access to raw milk? Well first off sip, secondly try adding some of the good bacterial drinks that are out nowadays to the drink to help increase intestinal flora and thirdly my favourite mix the protein powder with organic natural yoghurt into a pudding mixture and eat it. This way it is slowly entering the digestive process.

What about adding some carbs to the drink to help replace the lost energy from the workout? Forget it. The body needs protein at this point! In time the carbs can come……… 30-60 minutes later when the body has had ample time to get the protein broken down and the amino acids to where they are needed most. The repair of damaged tissue first and foremost. Next you’re asking well do I mix the drink with full fat or skimmed milk? Simple answer. Full fat, the body needs fat to help digest protein. They go hand in hand. Why do you think that there’s so much in an egg yolk? Because it is needed for full absorption of the protein and the stimulation of hormonal process that go hand in hand with growth, also the fat encapsulates the protein and slows digestion down so as to help the body get the maximum out of it as possible.

So protein foods what are we looking for? Simple meats eggs fish and fowl. Nothing could be simpler. Eat you eggs whole don’t waste the yolks. That is just so stupid. As stated above they are needed and to top it all of the yolk is packed full of vitamins and minerals and lecithin which is used in the metabolism of fats! If at all possible save your protein drink for just after training and stick to solid foods the rest of the time. If not, just follow the above simple rules, don’t blend, sip and add some fat to the drink. What about vegetarian foods? I can’t really say much on that subject, as I’ve not had much experience myself in that field. All I do know is that vegetable proteins are an inferior source of protein and what with all the genetically modified things flying about in that field I would prefer to avoid like the plague, some do manage to do it but it is just not for me, and maybe a subject better written about after more personnel study, but by all means try if you feel the need to, that is how we learn.

We can also use milk and plenty of it, but milk gives me gut ache you whine, yes it may but that’s because the enzyme lactase has been removed during its processing and lactase is natures way of helping us digest lactose the milk sugar, so how do we get round this, well you can by from the health food shops lactase but, this can be expensive so I just add a little whipping cream to the mix to help slow the whole digestive thing down to help the body get the most from all that has been taken in at that meal. Another thing about lactose is that even though it is a sugar, it is a slow burning sugar. Which is ideal for us bodybuilders so another reason why we shouldn’t avoid it like the plague as a lot do.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 06:38 AM

PART 2

So what now? You look at your present meal structure and remove the excess protein from all your meals prior to training and save some of it for after training when it is truly needed. The next question then is do I take my after training protein as a shake or as a solid food? Me personally I would say food as a when it is possible but if not then it has to be a shake there is no other way around this food is paramount at this critical time, but what type of protein shake do I use there are so many out there and they all say that they are the best? Why wouldn’t they? They want your hard earned money! Do I go with a whey shake? A whey and carb shake? What? Well whey lets face it is just the left over liquid from the manufacture of cottage cheese which has been dried through many different process and has had who knows what done to it and stuck in a tub with artificial sweeteners and a fancy label stuck on it with lots of scientific writing to make it sound good. So as you can see me personally doesn’t think that whey is a good idea and on top off all that it is digested way too quickly. The body just doesn’t have to do anything with it so it goes in one end and 10-30 mins later its out again all done and dusted, has the body really got all it needs from it in such a small space of time? Me thinks not. So what do we use then? Well I prefer to use a milk or calcium caseinate with egg protein which is slowly digested and absorbed for proper assimilation by the body and the muscles needing it plus the body has been allowed to do its natural job of digesting and processing all the food it takes in not just having it dumped on it. Now by this point some of you will be moaning to yourself that "I cant drink milk it gives me gas stomach ache and even the ****s", well there are a couple of reasons behind this and, some ways around it. First, most people drink their shakes too fast. They just chug them down then rush off to the showers or home, wrong, wrong, wrong! Sip it slowly sat down and allow the body to get all the correct juices flowing as it slowly filters through to the stomach were it will be digested, secondly don’t blend it in the blender this creates air pockets which get into you stomach and also it breaks down the fat molecules in the milk which make it difficult to digest, this is the process that happens in the manufacture of bottled milk and why so many people cannot drink milk nowadays, for those that have access to it use raw milk, green top to those in the UK, this has not been tampered with in anyway and is as nature intended it to be a healthy drink. What do we do if we don’t have access to raw milk? Well first off sip, secondly try adding some of the good bacterial drinks that are out nowadays to the drink to help increase intestinal flora and thirdly my favourite mix the protein powder with organic natural yoghurt into a pudding mixture and eat it. This way it is slowly entering the digestive process.
What about adding some carbs to the drink to help replace the lost energy from the workout? Forget it. The body needs protein at this point! In time the carbs can come……… 30-60 minutes later when the body has had ample time to get the protein broken down and the amino acids to where they are needed most. The repair of damaged tissue first and foremost. Next you’re asking well do I mix the drink with full fat or skimmed milk? Simple answer. Full fat, the body needs fat to help digest protein. They go hand in hand. Why do you think that there’s so much in an egg yolk? Because it is needed for full absorption of the protein and the stimulation of hormonal process that go hand in hand with growth, also the fat encapsulates the protein and slows digestion down so as to help the body get the maximum out of it as possible.

So protein foods what are we looking for? Simple meats eggs fish and fowl. Nothing could be simpler. Eat you eggs whole don’t waste the yolks. That is just so stupid. As stated above they are needed and to top it all of the yolk is packed full of vitamins and minerals and lecithin which is used in the metabolism of fats! If at all possible save your protein drink for just after training and stick to solid foods the rest of the time. If not, just follow the above simple rules, don’t blend, sip and add some fat to the drink. What about vegetarian foods? I can’t really say much on that subject, as I’ve not had much experience myself in that field. All I do know is that vegetable proteins are an inferior source of protein and what with all the genetically modified things flying about in that field I would prefer to avoid like the plague, some do manage to do it but it is just not for me, and maybe a subject better written about after more personnel study, but by all means try if you feel the need to, that is how we learn.

We can also use milk and plenty of it, but milk gives me gut ache you whine, yes it may but that’s because the enzyme lactase has been removed during its processing and lactase is natures way of helping us digest lactose the milk sugar, so how do we get round this, well you can by from the health food shops lactase but, this can be expensive so I just add a little whipping cream to the mix to help slow the whole digestive thing down to help the body get the most from all that has been taken in at that meal. Another thing about lactose is that even though it is a sugar, it is a slow burning sugar. Which is ideal for us bodybuilders so another reason why we shouldn’t avoid it like the plague as a lot do.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 06:44 AM

PART 3

Lets take a lot of the protein drinks out there they all remove the lactose to help with your digestive problems yet they then fill them with all sorts of different sugars, maltodextrin, fructose, sucrose etc and all these help to do is sweeten it for your taste buds and help to ferment the food in your gut which then gets you back to the gut ache thing and what do you then do you blame it on the milk or avoid them all together and hinder your bodybuilding potential which is not good. At this point you could always go back to the old standby of milk and raw eggs as a drink, yes I did say raw eggs but lets get it straight you don’t need to bang back dozens at a time just one or two a couple of times a day is plenty, this way you are reducing the risk of food poisoning and egg binding, you can also nuke ‘em in the microwave for 20 seconds to kill off any bad guys in there before you add them to the drink and as always sip the drink over a good 15 minutes. Don’t just bang it back. Learn to relax and enjoy your food.
Another thing also is to not over cook your food, don’t burn it or blacken it as this alters the protein structure and makes it very difficult for the body to digest and may help it go off in your stomach.

Carbohydrates. Personally I think it is better to only get them from natural sources of foods, vegetables and fruits being the main stay as there also full of fibre and essential vitamins and minerals. You can also get them from seeds and nuts; as for things like breads and pastas use in moderation and really only straight after your workout to help with the recovery process. I feel as bodybuilders we put too much faith into our carbohydrate consumption, and this is one of the reasons I think that we end up out of shape.

What you have to remember protein can and does get changed into energy. Carbohydrates cannot be changed into protein. As for an energy source, there is nothing wrong with them and the body does need them but, they are only a short lived energy source usually 2-4 hours. Next time you have a large carbohydrate meal just se how long it is before you are hungry again, you will be surprised how short a time it is. I would definitely try to avoid all forms of carbohydrate in liquid for, whether you take them in shakes or pre workout drinks, all the fibre has been removed so it will hit your system way too fast for the body to be able to deal with it properly; so creating a large insulin release and therefore increasing you chances of storing the sugars as fats.

For the average bodybuilder I would say that no more than 200 grams a day be consumed in the form of carbohydrates, and that is for the larger guys out there, those in the 250lb+ region. Anything less and I would reduce the intake accordingly.

When dieting for a show then that is a totally different ball game, you want to be looking at reducing your consumption to 50 grams a day or less if you can manage it. If you are ingesting carbohydrates at this stage your body is going to want to use them instead of stored fat, don’t get me wrong there is probably going to be a need to use them the last day or so to help with filling out and water dispersion.

What we have to look at when looking at carbohydrates and our genetic make up is that for centuries and millennia man used fats and proteins as his major food sources. Carbohydrates were mostly used during the spring summer months in many parts of the world, and most of the human beings on the planet would have used the more root based carbohydrates, as opposed to the man made variety, pasta and flour based products. This is what our appendix where used for; to help digest the very rough vegetation and break it down just like a cow uses a second stomach. Ever wondered why so many people get appendicitis? Because their appendix is rotting due to lack of use, it’s that simple (in my eyes anyway).

I’m not saying avoid all forms of carbohydrates, just be sensible with which ones you use; and which type you use, as its your bodybuilding future at stake here.

The body is very adaptive and will quite easily use fats as its energy source over carbohydrates but, only if the carbohydrates are not there, and for some that’s the hardest part, years of using carbohydrates and being told to do so by everybody. They will suffer the most when they try to turn on their internal natural bodily instincts to use fats, the body will just rebel; but given enough time it will get there.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 06:46 AM

PART 4

Plus another good thing to come out of all this is that if you are using only natural wholesome vegetables and fruits as your carbohydrate source, then your also getting the best internal cleanse money can buy. Because without this internal cleansing you are never going to reach your full genetic potential.
We as bodybuilders what with the huge amounts of food we have consumed over the years, are going to, internally, carry a lot of waste products which will be doing us no end of harm. All that matter just rotting away day after day after day, just doesn’t bear thinking about does it?

But if you eat your veggies like mother always said you ain’t going to have that problem are you? Ever noticed when you eat a large pasta meal a couple hrs later your thirsty? Well that’s another drawback to over consumption of carbohydrates, the dehydrating effect they have through needing 4 times their weight in water to get through the system effectively. This is one of the reasons why people on the Atkins diet loose so much weight at the beginning its just excess water they are carrying. This is happening more than likely through over use of carbohydrates in some form or another.

Lets just go off on a tangent for a little while, The idea that as bodybuilders that we can only digest 30 grams of protein at any one time has been around for quite some time and in the 90`s was turned on its head really by a Mr Paul Borresson and his findings that there were lots and lots of woolly mammoth bones at the bottom of cliffs. These beasts had been driven there by cavemen, to their deaths, so that they could be eaten, and eaten in huge quantities. So there you have it we can digest more than 30 grams per meal. Wrong, yes you read that right, wrong. We can eat more than 30 grams of protein but at only certain times. What Paul seemed to not mention was that the cavemen had been running around in a heightened state pumped full of hormones, which I may add had been released naturally in the fight or flight scenario. What also needs to be taken into account is he was more than likely refering to the steroid taking bodybuilder and they more than likely can. What I am trying to do with putting the 30 grams idea forward is to keep digestion to the maximum and limit the amount that could be converted to fat when larger amounts are ingetsted.

You will now probably asking what the bloody hell does this have to do with digesting protein, and thinking that I am barking mad. The state the cavemen were in is much the same state we as athletes are in after a serious training session, a total catabolic state from the stresses we have just inflicted upon our selves. The cavemen on the other hand came to this state through fear and sheer hard graft, they may also have been hunting for quite a few hours and were starving.

Now lets take a look at the old time bodybuilders, the one thing most had in common with each other was they trained a lot, sometimes multiple times a day. Why did they do this and how does that tie in with cavemen?

They reached, like cavemen, a catabolic state, they like cavemen gorged on protein after the workout/kill. But you said they couldn’t digest that amount of food. True but, they like the cavemen were only doing so after strenuous activities, and the rest of the time eating as required. So your old timer would for the most part eat 30 grams per meal during the day but, after a workout would probably shoot for upwards of 100 grams. His body like nature had intended, was primed for it at this time, as it needed it, then he would go about his day; returning later to train again and then gorge once more.

You see what you have to look at is protein is numero uno in the food chain, but as a species really we were not meant to sit down at a table and eat a meal. We were meant to go out and kill and gorge, then sleep and try again next day, some days we ate some we didn’t. Now in today’s world we have to create that ultimate anabolic environment by training. That way you can then get the most out of what you eat the rest of the time it is not really needed but to only hold onto what you already have, just to help you tick over until the next ultimate anabolic environment is created through training and hormonal manipulation.

The sad fact is that through the eons of time this instinct has been lost mostly due to the dark days that followed the introduction of steroids. All these chemicals did was mask your natural built in innate animal wisdom, and just did the work for you by passing all that was natural and normal.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 06:47 AM

PART 5

Now I know your going to be thinking here we go another steroid basher that’s it finished reading this ****e, well hang on for a minute let me fill in a couple of details. I have used and used many times, if people want to use then that is their given right to do so, all I am trying to point out is that it can still be done naturally if you learn how to read the signs,. If you are a gear user then it can still help you and maybe even push you further than you thought possible.
The bodybuilders of the 70`s, the golden era as it is sometimes called; really were really at the good and bad ends of the sport in that they started to push the drug side of things, but also they still had that instinct thing still hanging around from the really old timers. Which gave then a greater understanding of a lot more than we today realise. For a start a lot trained twice a day, they would after each workout go out to a steak house and eat for man and beast, then later in the day repeat this, some even training three times a day to get even more out of it. They instinctively knew this through the way they were trained by the older generation, but they had the added advantage of their newfound chemical friends. This then boosted the whole thing even further, hence you can now understand why there was such and explosion in the standard of the competitors, it was not just down to the drugs but the protein cycling that they also employed in creating not only a natural but chemical ultimate anabolic environment.

As time went on we know the rest of the story the drugs became the main priority and food and instinct sadly followed further and further respectfully behind.

I must at this stage point out that I do not condone the use of performance enhancing drugs and will not in this book be discussing cycles etc, that is a subject best left alone and for others more informed to do. What I hope to do in this book is give both the drug user and natural athletes a way of using food and training to help them reach their potentials.

You see looking back the old time bodybuilders were probably at times eating more protein than todays monsters, yet they had smaller waists, stomachs and were probably a hell of a lot healthier for they also took a smaller amount of drugs overall.

Another thing that they did was protein cycling in that they also had times when they went with very low protein intakes or even going with out it for a day or two, just as our caveman did went he couldn`t find food, to help rest the body and create a second ultimate anabolic environment through a fast/starvation call it what you want mode. It has been said time and time again that we have to stay in a positive nitrogen balance, yes? But, by who? More often than not the blokes that are pushing the products. Your hard earned muscle isn`t going to disappear over night if you miss a meal or reduce your protein intake, as the manufacturers would have you believe. All your really doing is creating extra work for your kidneys sorting out all the excess urea that is being produced and for them to find ways of getting it out of the body before it does any harm. If your using gear then maybe you can get away with a little extra but not the amounts that you are thinking.

The Bulgarians used to use and probably still do , use a lot of protein cycling in their Olympic weightlifting teams. What they do is when shooting for some maximum lifts and during a bulking stage before a big lifting meet is every week have a complete day without protein; eating only fruit. Crazy you may be thinking, but no there is method in this madness. They observed years ago that their farmers through the centuries every so often did not feed their livestock, but the livestock was still extremely healthy and well muscled (lots of meat one them). Intreged by this the coaches looked more into it and found that after the day without the protein their athletes bodies were ravenous for it and turned over more protein when it was reintroduced. They recovered quicker and grew faster from it, leading to stronger lifters in competition.

So how do you put all this together? Well as your going all out for added mass you are deliberately pushing yourself into a catabolic state through excess training. You are consuming a lot of calories during this stage to help hold onto your already gained mass. You are looking to be training twice per day at least, more if possible. After each workout you are consuming a lot of calories from protein and throughout the rest of the day reducing this slightly. Then at about 7 days in you turn it all on its head, you go an entire day without any protein what so ever, shock horror. On this day the only thing you are allowed to eat is fruit and nothing else, this will help keep your energy levels up but also cleanse your insides out, this you will obviously notice yourself. The following day you drop everything else carbohydrates etc, you have a hard strenuous workout first thing and then the gorging begins and a gorge it must be, we are not looking at a couple of chicken breasts and a couple of steaks here; no, we

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 06:52 AM

PART 6

are shooting for a few pounds of each and more if you can manage it. The next day you will notice that you are not only bigger but fuller, and all this over a period of only 10 days ( that’s how long the cycle lasts if I did not mention it before ). You want to wait a couple of weeks at least before doing the cycle again as to let the body get used to its new found mass and to not over stimulate it.

Thats it for now but you never know there maybe more,just depends on how nice you all are to me with those reputation points:p

Ta for now.

Cookie

***Lorian*** · 24-07-2004, 10:13 AM

Excellent and extremely informative - thank you!

Reputation given where it's deserved! .. your total just notched up another 10

L

Killerkeane · 24-07-2004, 10:53 AM

yep, couldnt have said it better myself lol, good post ill give you some feedback on that one, must have taken a while to write that, nice one!

ONE SMART COOKIE · 24-07-2004, 01:03 PM

Thanks guys.

It took about 8 weeks to put together killerkeane and it still isn`t finished got more of the diet side of things to do not counting contest dieting,supps,training/exercises/rep/set sytems and hopefully a full 12months program from start to finish.

winger · 26-07-2004, 03:54 AM

Very impressive.

I think you could have made it a bit longer though............lol. Loved it.
I would comment but it would just be a repeat ;)

ONE SMART COOKIE · 26-07-2004, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

Very impressive.

I think you could have made it a bit longer though............lol. Loved it.
I would comment but it would just be a repeat ;)

Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhh go on winger comment I`ve just done round one over on Muscle Talk after posting it there

so i`m ready for round two:p

Ultrasonic · 27-07-2004, 12:45 PM

Interesting reading about some older training thoughts for a newbie like myself; thanks for taking the time to post.

If you want a discussion one question did spring to mind when I read it, but it's probably dumb... If I read it right, on non-training days you're advocating 30g of protein a meal, which for say 6 meals is 180g. Then you reccommend 200g of carbs a day, which with the protein gives ~1500kcal per day. Isn't that going to mean consuming rather a lot of fat to take this figure up to the sort of daily totals I'm used to seeing, or am I missing something (very likely)? Or is it simply a question of training everyday and so getting much more energy from the large protein meal PWO?

Martin

ONE SMART COOKIE · 27-07-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultrasonic

Interesting reading about some older training thoughts for a newbie like myself; thanks for taking the time to post.

If you want a discussion one question did spring to mind when I read it, but it's probably dumb... If I read it right, on non-training days you're advocating 30g of protein a meal, which for say 6 meals is 180g. Then you reccommend 200g of carbs a day, which with the protein gives ~1500kcal per day. Isn't that going to mean consuming rather a lot of fat to take this figure up to the sort of daily totals I'm used to seeing, or am I missing something (very likely)? Or is it simply a question of training everyday and so getting much more energy from the large protein meal PWO?

Martin

Very good question but as your aware most experts bang on about 3000-5000 cals aday to either grow or maintain but to me thats way too many cals as how many times do you see a ripped bber eating lets say 4000 cals aday and not doing drugs?most guys nowadays just have too much blubber on them,so what I am suggesting is to get an eating plan that still allows you to grow but not grow fat,remember "it`s not what you eat it`s what you absorb"

As for me I try to train atleast 5 days a week if I can 6 days so the cals are up there with the extra p/w protein.

Ultrasonic · 27-07-2004, 05:13 PM

Thanks for that OSC. I'm assuming you're saving your thoughts on total calorie requirements for a future installment of your treatise right?

winger · 27-07-2004, 11:00 PM

Hey OSC, here is a ratio that I did a few years back and got ripped. I too agree that more is not always better. I read about these guys eating two chicken breasts, rice and a 50g protein shake to get to that 1 1/2 grams to every pound of bodyweight. I think too much food makes you tired (insulin spike) and why would I want that.
Here is the ratio for breakfas

23-07-2004, 09:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	The BodyBuilding World According To Cookie The Bodybuilding World According To Cookie Disclaimer The following information is all my own views as I see it and how I see it should be done for maximum results with the minimum amount of effort. I am putting this forward as an alternative approach to all the twaddle and conflicting articles you are probably seeing on a monthly basis in the mainstream magazines which more than likely leave you scratching your head at the end of it. The following is for informational purposes and is not intended to heal or cure and before embarking on any type of physical training a visit to your physician for a medical check up is a good idea. All the best Cookie In the beginning god created man in his own image a picture of health and beauty then man created Dianabol and all that went out of the window he became bloated and ugly a bit like those old gargoyles you see on old cathedrals but now there on stage and we pay to see them kill themselves but enough about the drug side of things I am not here to preach or tell you what to take just to pass on a few titbits that hopefully I`ll help you on your way to getting the physique of your choice with or without drugs. I like you am just a regular guy that has a passion for this sport we call bodybuilding. I live it and breath it, no matter how many times I try to get away from it for what ever reason it always pulls me back so might has well just go with the flow and see were it takes me. This little book/leaflet of words is also going to be a little like that no fancy chapters or headings just going with the flow as the thoughts enter my head and reach my fingers this will also make sure that you have to read it all the way through word for word just to find out it entire contents and stop you from just flicking through to the juicy bits like we have all done in the past including me. So were do we start? Hmmm that’s a tricky one, how about diet? Why not? That’s always a good one. How many of you reading this are banging your head against a wall trying to find that ultimate combination of fats/carbs and protein? Well there isn’t one, the body just doesnt work like that that would be just too easy. Nature’s not that stupid to let us get away with it that easy. How do we really find what we really need to eat? You listen to your body that is it. It is so simple. No fancy equations no food charts and graphs no guru writing out complicated diet sheets and charging you the earth for doing so, chances are he writes the same one down for more than just you but tells you its your personalised diet just for your needs. We all know we need protein to build muscle that’s the main ingredient but, how much? More than often than not a lot less than you actually think, we don’t need to bombard our systems with tons of protein day after day it just cant take it. The body will start to rebel and your gains will start to slow down and we don’t want that do we? No! Protein comes from the Greek word Proteus meaning first or most important so it should be just that not just the whole shabang. If we eat too much it has a good chance of turning to fat or urea and excreted out through the kidneys, which can then cause problems internally. We don’t want either of those do we? So how do we get around that situation? Simple we cycle our protein intake like people do their drug usage, for the most part throughout the day we ingest 30 grams per meal and then at that magical time just after training when the window of opportunity opens up and the body is crying out for protein to help repair the damage we have just inflicted upon it we feed it all it can take and if that means banging down a 100 grams of the stuff we do it because that is what the body wants not what we are telling it to do, get my drift? But you say "30 grams is not enough at a meal, I`ll shrink, I can digest more than that". No you cant believe me all that was brought about by the supplement companies in the late 80s and early 90s to get you to buy more of their products and put more money in their pockets, if you don’t believe me just check out the articles from the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s to see for yourself that they always said 30 grams per meal and no more and then just look to when it changed and you will see that I am right and it was when we had the big introduction of a lot of new products and the meal replacement fad, bet your feeling a bit ***ed off now right now thinking of all the money you have just wasted on food and protein powders. Well not anymore. Now you know different don’t you. So where do you go from here? Well for a start your going to have a lot more money in your pocket so that’s a good thing and a positive thing and positive is good for your hormones so two birds killed with one stone there. So what now? You look at your present meal structure and remove the excess protein from all your meals prior to training and save some of it for after training when it is truly needed. The next question then is do I take my after training protein as a shake or as a solid food? Me personally I would say food as a when it is possible but if not then it has to be a shake there is no other way around this food is paramount at this critical time, but what type of protein shake do I use there are so many out there and they all say that they are the best? Why wouldn’t they? They want your hard earned money! Do I go with a whey shake? A whey and carb shake? What? Well whey lets face it is just the left over liquid from the manufacture of cottage cheese which has been dried through many different process and has had who knows what done to it and stuck in a tub with artificial sweeteners and a fancy label stuck on it with lots of scientific writing to make it sound good. So as you can see me personally doesn’t think that whey is a good idea and on top off all that it is digested way too quickly. The body just doesn’t have to do anything with it so it goes in one end and 10-30 mins later its out again all done and dusted, has the body really got all it needs from it in such a small space of time? Me thinks not. So what do we use then? Well I prefer to use a milk or calcium caseinate with egg protein which is slowly digested and absorbed for proper assimilation by the body and the muscles needing it plus the body has been allowed to do its natural job of digesting and processing all the food it takes in not just having it dumped on it. Now by this point some of you will be moaning to yourself that "I cant drink milk it gives me gas stomach ache and even the ***s", well there are a couple of reasons behind this and, some ways around it. First, most people drink their shakes too fast. They just chug them down then rush off to the showers or home, wrong, wrong, wrong! Sip it slowly sat down and allow the body to get all the correct juices flowing as it slowly filters through to the stomach were it will be digested, secondly don’t blend it in the blender this creates air pockets which get into you stomach and also it breaks down the fat molecules in the milk which make it difficult to digest, this is the process that happens in the manufacture of bottled milk and why so many people cannot drink milk nowadays, for those that have access to it use raw milk, green top to those in the UK, this has not been tampered with in anyway and is as nature intended it to be a healthy drink. What do we do if we don’t have access to raw milk? Well first off sip, secondly try adding some of the good bacterial drinks that are out nowadays to the drink to help increase intestinal flora and thirdly my favourite mix the protein powder with organic natural yoghurt into a pudding mixture and eat it. This way it is slowly entering the digestive process. What about adding some carbs to the drink to help replace the lost energy from the workout? Forget it. The body needs protein at this point! In time the carbs can come……… 30-60 minutes later when the body has had ample time to get the protein broken down and the amino acids to where they are needed most. The repair of damaged tissue first and foremost. Next you’re asking well do I mix the drink with full fat or skimmed milk? Simple answer. Full fat, the body needs fat to help digest protein. They go hand in hand. Why do you think that there’s so much in an egg yolk? Because it is needed for full absorption of the protein and the stimulation of hormonal process that go hand in hand with growth, also the fat encapsulates the protein and slows digestion down so as to help the body get the maximum out of it as possible. So protein foods what are we looking for? Simple meats eggs fish and fowl. Nothing could be simpler. Eat you eggs whole don’t waste the yolks. That is just so stupid. As stated above they are needed and to top it all of the yolk is packed full of vitamins and minerals and lecithin which is used in the metabolism of fats! If at all possible save your protein drink for just after training and stick to solid foods the rest of the time. If not, just follow the above simple rules, don’t blend, sip and add some fat to the drink. What about vegetarian foods? I can’t really say much on that subject, as I’ve not had much experience myself in that field. All I do know is that vegetable proteins are an inferior source of protein and what with all the genetically modified things flying about in that field I would prefer to avoid like the plague, some do manage to do it but it is just not for me, and maybe a subject better written about after more personnel study, but by all means try if you feel the need to, that is how we learn. We can also use milk and plenty of it, but milk gives me gut ache you whine, yes it may but that’s because the enzyme lactase has been removed during its processing and lactase is natures way of helping us digest lactose the milk sugar, so how do we get round this, well you can by from the health food shops lactase but, this can be expensive so I just add a little whipping cream to the mix to help slow the whole digestive thing down to help the body get the most from all that has been taken in at that meal. Another thing about lactose is that even though it is a sugar, it is a slow burning sugar. Which is ideal for us bodybuilders so another reason why we shouldn’t avoid it like the plague as a lot do. Last edited by ONE SMART COOKIE; 24-07-2004 at 06:55 AM.

24-07-2004, 10:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
*Lorian* Administrator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cheltenham Posts: 2,450 Blog Entries: 1	Excellent and extremely informative - thank you! Reputation given where it's deserved! .. your total just notched up another 10 L __________________ Now wearing the Captain's Hat.

24-07-2004, 10:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,977	yep, couldnt have said it better myself lol, good post ill give you some feedback on that one, must have taken a while to write that, nice one! __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

26-07-2004, 03:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,184	Very impressive. I think you could have made it a bit longer though............lol. Loved it. I would comment but it would just be a repeat ;) __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by winger; 26-07-2004 at 04:41 AM.

24-07-2004, 06:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	PART 2 So what now? You look at your present meal structure and remove the excess protein from all your meals prior to training and save some of it for after training when it is truly needed. The next question then is do I take my after training protein as a shake or as a solid food? Me personally I would say food as a when it is possible but if not then it has to be a shake there is no other way around this food is paramount at this critical time, but what type of protein shake do I use there are so many out there and they all say that they are the best? Why wouldn’t they? They want your hard earned money! Do I go with a whey shake? A whey and carb shake? What? Well whey lets face it is just the left over liquid from the manufacture of cottage cheese which has been dried through many different process and has had who knows what done to it and stuck in a tub with artificial sweeteners and a fancy label stuck on it with lots of scientific writing to make it sound good. So as you can see me personally doesn’t think that whey is a good idea and on top off all that it is digested way too quickly. The body just doesn’t have to do anything with it so it goes in one end and 10-30 mins later its out again all done and dusted, has the body really got all it needs from it in such a small space of time? Me thinks not. So what do we use then? Well I prefer to use a milk or calcium caseinate with egg protein which is slowly digested and absorbed for proper assimilation by the body and the muscles needing it plus the body has been allowed to do its natural job of digesting and processing all the food it takes in not just having it dumped on it. Now by this point some of you will be moaning to yourself that "I cant drink milk it gives me gas stomach ache and even the **s", well there are a couple of reasons behind this and, some ways around it. First, most people drink their shakes too fast. They just chug them down then rush off to the showers or home, wrong, wrong, wrong! Sip it slowly sat down and allow the body to get all the correct juices flowing as it slowly filters through to the stomach were it will be digested, secondly don’t blend it in the blender this creates air pockets which get into you stomach and also it breaks down the fat molecules in the milk which make it difficult to digest, this is the process that happens in the manufacture of bottled milk and why so many people cannot drink milk nowadays, for those that have access to it use raw milk, green top to those in the UK, this has not been tampered with in anyway and is as nature intended it to be a healthy drink. What do we do if we don’t have access to raw milk? Well first off sip, secondly try adding some of the good bacterial drinks that are out nowadays to the drink to help increase intestinal flora and thirdly my favourite mix the protein powder with organic natural yoghurt into a pudding mixture and eat it. This way it is slowly entering the digestive process. What about adding some carbs to the drink to help replace the lost energy from the workout? Forget it. The body needs protein at this point! In time the carbs can come……… 30-60 minutes later when the body has had ample time to get the protein broken down and the amino acids to where they are needed most. The repair of damaged tissue first and foremost. Next you’re asking well do I mix the drink with full fat or skimmed milk? Simple answer. Full fat, the body needs fat to help digest protein. They go hand in hand. Why do you think that there’s so much in an egg yolk? Because it is needed for full absorption of the protein and the stimulation of hormonal process that go hand in hand with growth, also the fat encapsulates the protein and slows digestion down so as to help the body get the maximum out of it as possible. So protein foods what are we looking for? Simple meats eggs fish and fowl. Nothing could be simpler. Eat you eggs whole don’t waste the yolks. That is just so stupid. As stated above they are needed and to top it all of the yolk is packed full of vitamins and minerals and lecithin which is used in the metabolism of fats! If at all possible save your protein drink for just after training and stick to solid foods the rest of the time. If not, just follow the above simple rules, don’t blend, sip and add some fat to the drink. What about vegetarian foods? I can’t really say much on that subject, as I’ve not had much experience myself in that field. All I do know is that vegetable proteins are an inferior source of protein and what with all the genetically modified things flying about in that field I would prefer to avoid like the plague, some do manage to do it but it is just not for me, and maybe a subject better written about after more personnel study, but by all means try if you feel the need to, that is how we learn. We can also use milk and plenty of it, but milk gives me gut ache you whine, yes it may but that’s because the enzyme lactase has been removed during its processing and lactase is natures way of helping us digest lactose the milk sugar, so how do we get round this, well you can by from the health food shops lactase but, this can be expensive so I just add a little whipping cream to the mix to help slow the whole digestive thing down to help the body get the most from all that has been taken in at that meal. Another thing about lactose is that even though it is a sugar, it is a slow burning sugar. Which is ideal for us bodybuilders so another reason why we shouldn’t avoid it like the plague as a lot do.

24-07-2004, 06:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	PART 3 Lets take a lot of the protein drinks out there they all remove the lactose to help with your digestive problems yet they then fill them with all sorts of different sugars, maltodextrin, fructose, sucrose etc and all these help to do is sweeten it for your taste buds and help to ferment the food in your gut which then gets you back to the gut ache thing and what do you then do you blame it on the milk or avoid them all together and hinder your bodybuilding potential which is not good. At this point you could always go back to the old standby of milk and raw eggs as a drink, yes I did say raw eggs but lets get it straight you don’t need to bang back dozens at a time just one or two a couple of times a day is plenty, this way you are reducing the risk of food poisoning and egg binding, you can also nuke ‘em in the microwave for 20 seconds to kill off any bad guys in there before you add them to the drink and as always sip the drink over a good 15 minutes. Don’t just bang it back. Learn to relax and enjoy your food. Another thing also is to not over cook your food, don’t burn it or blacken it as this alters the protein structure and makes it very difficult for the body to digest and may help it go off in your stomach. Carbohydrates. Personally I think it is better to only get them from natural sources of foods, vegetables and fruits being the main stay as there also full of fibre and essential vitamins and minerals. You can also get them from seeds and nuts; as for things like breads and pastas use in moderation and really only straight after your workout to help with the recovery process. I feel as bodybuilders we put too much faith into our carbohydrate consumption, and this is one of the reasons I think that we end up out of shape. What you have to remember protein can and does get changed into energy. Carbohydrates cannot be changed into protein. As for an energy source, there is nothing wrong with them and the body does need them but, they are only a short lived energy source usually 2-4 hours. Next time you have a large carbohydrate meal just se how long it is before you are hungry again, you will be surprised how short a time it is. I would definitely try to avoid all forms of carbohydrate in liquid for, whether you take them in shakes or pre workout drinks, all the fibre has been removed so it will hit your system way too fast for the body to be able to deal with it properly; so creating a large insulin release and therefore increasing you chances of storing the sugars as fats. For the average bodybuilder I would say that no more than 200 grams a day be consumed in the form of carbohydrates, and that is for the larger guys out there, those in the 250lb+ region. Anything less and I would reduce the intake accordingly. When dieting for a show then that is a totally different ball game, you want to be looking at reducing your consumption to 50 grams a day or less if you can manage it. If you are ingesting carbohydrates at this stage your body is going to want to use them instead of stored fat, don’t get me wrong there is probably going to be a need to use them the last day or so to help with filling out and water dispersion. What we have to look at when looking at carbohydrates and our genetic make up is that for centuries and millennia man used fats and proteins as his major food sources. Carbohydrates were mostly used during the spring summer months in many parts of the world, and most of the human beings on the planet would have used the more root based carbohydrates, as opposed to the man made variety, pasta and flour based products. This is what our appendix where used for; to help digest the very rough vegetation and break it down just like a cow uses a second stomach. Ever wondered why so many people get appendicitis? Because their appendix is rotting due to lack of use, it’s that simple (in my eyes anyway). I’m not saying avoid all forms of carbohydrates, just be sensible with which ones you use; and which type you use, as its your bodybuilding future at stake here. The body is very adaptive and will quite easily use fats as its energy source over carbohydrates but, only if the carbohydrates are not there, and for some that’s the hardest part, years of using carbohydrates and being told to do so by everybody. They will suffer the most when they try to turn on their internal natural bodily instincts to use fats, the body will just rebel; but given enough time it will get there.

24-07-2004, 06:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	PART 4 Plus another good thing to come out of all this is that if you are using only natural wholesome vegetables and fruits as your carbohydrate source, then your also getting the best internal cleanse money can buy. Because without this internal cleansing you are never going to reach your full genetic potential. We as bodybuilders what with the huge amounts of food we have consumed over the years, are going to, internally, carry a lot of waste products which will be doing us no end of harm. All that matter just rotting away day after day after day, just doesn’t bear thinking about does it? But if you eat your veggies like mother always said you ain’t going to have that problem are you? Ever noticed when you eat a large pasta meal a couple hrs later your thirsty? Well that’s another drawback to over consumption of carbohydrates, the dehydrating effect they have through needing 4 times their weight in water to get through the system effectively. This is one of the reasons why people on the Atkins diet loose so much weight at the beginning its just excess water they are carrying. This is happening more than likely through over use of carbohydrates in some form or another. Lets just go off on a tangent for a little while, The idea that as bodybuilders that we can only digest 30 grams of protein at any one time has been around for quite some time and in the 90`s was turned on its head really by a Mr Paul Borresson and his findings that there were lots and lots of woolly mammoth bones at the bottom of cliffs. These beasts had been driven there by cavemen, to their deaths, so that they could be eaten, and eaten in huge quantities. So there you have it we can digest more than 30 grams per meal. Wrong, yes you read that right, wrong. We can eat more than 30 grams of protein but at only certain times. What Paul seemed to not mention was that the cavemen had been running around in a heightened state pumped full of hormones, which I may add had been released naturally in the fight or flight scenario. What also needs to be taken into account is he was more than likely refering to the steroid taking bodybuilder and they more than likely can. What I am trying to do with putting the 30 grams idea forward is to keep digestion to the maximum and limit the amount that could be converted to fat when larger amounts are ingetsted. You will now probably asking what the bloody hell does this have to do with digesting protein, and thinking that I am barking mad. The state the cavemen were in is much the same state we as athletes are in after a serious training session, a total catabolic state from the stresses we have just inflicted upon our selves. The cavemen on the other hand came to this state through fear and sheer hard graft, they may also have been hunting for quite a few hours and were starving. Now lets take a look at the old time bodybuilders, the one thing most had in common with each other was they trained a lot, sometimes multiple times a day. Why did they do this and how does that tie in with cavemen? They reached, like cavemen, a catabolic state, they like cavemen gorged on protein after the workout/kill. But you said they couldn’t digest that amount of food. True but, they like the cavemen were only doing so after strenuous activities, and the rest of the time eating as required. So your old timer would for the most part eat 30 grams per meal during the day but, after a workout would probably shoot for upwards of 100 grams. His body like nature had intended, was primed for it at this time, as it needed it, then he would go about his day; returning later to train again and then gorge once more. You see what you have to look at is protein is numero uno in the food chain, but as a species really we were not meant to sit down at a table and eat a meal. We were meant to go out and kill and gorge, then sleep and try again next day, some days we ate some we didn’t. Now in today’s world we have to create that ultimate anabolic environment by training. That way you can then get the most out of what you eat the rest of the time it is not really needed but to only hold onto what you already have, just to help you tick over until the next ultimate anabolic environment is created through training and hormonal manipulation. The sad fact is that through the eons of time this instinct has been lost mostly due to the dark days that followed the introduction of steroids. All these chemicals did was mask your natural built in innate animal wisdom, and just did the work for you by passing all that was natural and normal.

24-07-2004, 06:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	PART 5 Now I know your going to be thinking here we go another steroid basher that’s it finished reading this ****e, well hang on for a minute let me fill in a couple of details. I have used and used many times, if people want to use then that is their given right to do so, all I am trying to point out is that it can still be done naturally if you learn how to read the signs,. If you are a gear user then it can still help you and maybe even push you further than you thought possible. The bodybuilders of the 70`s, the golden era as it is sometimes called; really were really at the good and bad ends of the sport in that they started to push the drug side of things, but also they still had that instinct thing still hanging around from the really old timers. Which gave then a greater understanding of a lot more than we today realise. For a start a lot trained twice a day, they would after each workout go out to a steak house and eat for man and beast, then later in the day repeat this, some even training three times a day to get even more out of it. They instinctively knew this through the way they were trained by the older generation, but they had the added advantage of their newfound chemical friends. This then boosted the whole thing even further, hence you can now understand why there was such and explosion in the standard of the competitors, it was not just down to the drugs but the protein cycling that they also employed in creating not only a natural but chemical ultimate anabolic environment. As time went on we know the rest of the story the drugs became the main priority and food and instinct sadly followed further and further respectfully behind. I must at this stage point out that I do not condone the use of performance enhancing drugs and will not in this book be discussing cycles etc, that is a subject best left alone and for others more informed to do. What I hope to do in this book is give both the drug user and natural athletes a way of using food and training to help them reach their potentials. You see looking back the old time bodybuilders were probably at times eating more protein than todays monsters, yet they had smaller waists, stomachs and were probably a hell of a lot healthier for they also took a smaller amount of drugs overall. Another thing that they did was protein cycling in that they also had times when they went with very low protein intakes or even going with out it for a day or two, just as our caveman did went he couldn`t find food, to help rest the body and create a second ultimate anabolic environment through a fast/starvation call it what you want mode. It has been said time and time again that we have to stay in a positive nitrogen balance, yes? But, by who? More often than not the blokes that are pushing the products. Your hard earned muscle isn`t going to disappear over night if you miss a meal or reduce your protein intake, as the manufacturers would have you believe. All your really doing is creating extra work for your kidneys sorting out all the excess urea that is being produced and for them to find ways of getting it out of the body before it does any harm. If your using gear then maybe you can get away with a little extra but not the amounts that you are thinking. The Bulgarians used to use and probably still do , use a lot of protein cycling in their Olympic weightlifting teams. What they do is when shooting for some maximum lifts and during a bulking stage before a big lifting meet is every week have a complete day without protein; eating only fruit. Crazy you may be thinking, but no there is method in this madness. They observed years ago that their farmers through the centuries every so often did not feed their livestock, but the livestock was still extremely healthy and well muscled (lots of meat one them). Intreged by this the coaches looked more into it and found that after the day without the protein their athletes bodies were ravenous for it and turned over more protein when it was reintroduced. They recovered quicker and grew faster from it, leading to stronger lifters in competition. So how do you put all this together? Well as your going all out for added mass you are deliberately pushing yourself into a catabolic state through excess training. You are consuming a lot of calories during this stage to help hold onto your already gained mass. You are looking to be training twice per day at least, more if possible. After each workout you are consuming a lot of calories from protein and throughout the rest of the day reducing this slightly. Then at about 7 days in you turn it all on its head, you go an entire day without any protein what so ever, shock horror. On this day the only thing you are allowed to eat is fruit and nothing else, this will help keep your energy levels up but also cleanse your insides out, this you will obviously notice yourself. The following day you drop everything else carbohydrates etc, you have a hard strenuous workout first thing and then the gorging begins and a gorge it must be, we are not looking at a couple of chicken breasts and a couple of steaks here; no, we

24-07-2004, 06:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	PART 6 are shooting for a few pounds of each and more if you can manage it. The next day you will notice that you are not only bigger but fuller, and all this over a period of only 10 days ( that’s how long the cycle lasts if I did not mention it before ). You want to wait a couple of weeks at least before doing the cycle again as to let the body get used to its new found mass and to not over stimulate it. Thats it for now but you never know there maybe more,just depends on how nice you all are to me with those reputation points:p Ta for now. Cookie

24-07-2004, 01:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	Thanks guys. It took about 8 weeks to put together killerkeane and it still isn`t finished got more of the diet side of things to do not counting contest dieting,supps,training/exercises/rep/set sytems and hopefully a full 12months program from start to finish.

27-07-2004, 12:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ultrasonic Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Around Posts: 123	Interesting reading about some older training thoughts for a newbie like myself; thanks for taking the time to post. If you want a discussion one question did spring to mind when I read it, but it's probably dumb... If I read it right, on non-training days you're advocating 30g of protein a meal, which for say 6 meals is 180g. Then you reccommend 200g of carbs a day, which with the protein gives ~1500kcal per day. Isn't that going to mean consuming rather a lot of fat to take this figure up to the sort of daily totals I'm used to seeing, or am I missing something (very likely)? Or is it simply a question of training everyday and so getting much more energy from the large protein meal PWO? Martin

27-07-2004, 05:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ultrasonic Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Around Posts: 123	Thanks for that OSC. I'm assuming you're saving your thoughts on total calorie requirements for a future installment of your treatise right?

27-07-2004, 11:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,184	Hey OSC, here is a ratio that I did a few years back and got ripped. I too agree that more is not always better. I read about these guys eating two chicken breasts, rice and a 50g protein shake to get to that 1 1/2 grams to every pound of bodyweight. I think too much food makes you tired (insulin spike) and why would I want that. Here is the ratio for breakfas