need to gain quality muscle.. - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

river · 26-03-2005, 09:30 PM

hi there, this is my first post. firstly i'd just like to say i've taken a while to have a look round and read quite a few posts, and really liked the relaxed atmosphere on this board.

my stats are:
25 years old
5'8" height (171cm)
9 stone (57kg)
approx BMI 19.19
athletic build
muscle definition, but generally light-weight :(

I'm determined to bulk up to a healthy and muscular 11 stone (70kg). I have access to a good range of gym equipment and have been working out (for martial arts mainly) for quite a few years. I just never seem to be able to maintain weight past 10 stone, it always drops to about 9. I try eating more but i've come to the conclusion i'm just not eating the right stuff to add that amount of weight in a healthy manner.

I'd really appreciate your comments on this, and any suggestions as to how to add the weight in muscle, whilst staying healthy and not throwing up everywhere on bizarre cocktails ;)

I think I understand the principles of eating more than the metabolism can get through, but i'm lost in terms of meals, do i need supplements, and the type of lifting i should be doing.

seriously, thanks for taking the time to read this and happy lifting.

river.

jugganaut · 26-03-2005, 09:34 PM

One thing you need to know. Test is always best. IMO what ever cycle your doing test should always be part of it. You could a testosterone enanthate only cycle @200mg-400mg per week for 10 weeks.

**big** · 26-03-2005, 09:51 PM

I agree that test is a great base for any cycle, but he's only 9 stone. He should be able to gain loads more naturally first. The fact that he can't is an indicator that either his training or his diet or both are wrong.

Post up your current diet and we'll be able to show you what changes you need to make. And post up your current training split and we'll show you what you need to change with that too

It sounds like you're a classic ectomorph hardgainer, which means you will probably respond extremely well to low volume training and an extremely high calorie diet.

river · 26-03-2005, 10:01 PM

thanx for your replies..

my current diet is:

breakfast: white toast OR cereal/fruit juice
lunch: white bread sandwiches, tuna OR jacket potato, beans etc..
dinner: pasta (plate full) cheese sauce.
snack: oranges, toast.

water: 4 glasses a day.
vitamin: centrium complete.

current workout is (probably twice a week)

bench press 3x12
arm curl 3x12
butterflys 3x12
leg curls 3x12
sit ups x 50
press ups x 25

i know thats is not a good bulky diet and light workout, hence my post and the desire to make postive changes.

your advice is very much appreciated.

river.

**big** · 26-03-2005, 10:09 PM

Okay both your diet and workout could use some work.

You diet needs far more protein with each meal, more healthy fats, and better carb sources. You should also be eating 5-6 times a day minimum. Try to get in at each meal a protein source (lean meat or fish), a good carb source (brown rice, wholemeal pasta etc) and some healthy fats (in the form of oils).

You should also double, or even triple (or more) your water intake.

I suspect you have a small appetite, like most ecto hardgainers, but you really need to boatload the calories to gain mass. Blend food if necessary - just get it down you!

Your workout routine needs compounds - squats and deadlifts. You don't need to be eating into your recovery time with curls. Stick to the basic compounds (squats, deads, bench, military press, chins, rows), and split your workout into two different sessions each week, keeping volume low at each session.

Ensure you get 8 hours sleep each night.

ChefX · 26-03-2005, 10:10 PM

you eating horrible in a way, not near enough proteins and fats

time to overhaul the diet
first off try and eat at least equal macronutrients for a few weeks (adjust your calories weekly by 500 until your gaining about 1/2 lb a week)

that will make a vast impact

eat some food!

Captain Hero · 26-03-2005, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river

thanx for your replies..

my current diet is:

breakfast: white toast OR cereal/fruit juice
lunch: white bread sandwiches, tuna OR jacket potato, beans etc..
dinner: pasta (plate full) cheese sauce.
snack: oranges, toast.

water: 4 glasses a day.
vitamin: centrium complete.

current workout is (probably twice a week)

bench press 3x12
arm curl 3x12
butterflys 3x12
leg curls 3x12
sit ups x 50
press ups x 25

i know thats is not a good bulky diet and light workout, hence my post and the desire to make postive changes.

your advice is very much appreciated.

river.

Hey dude dont worry we all have to start somewhere you get some quality food down ya, sleep right and train right and you should put on some size mate

Stick around and youll be able to get some good information from this board, theres loads of intelligent, informed people wholl be able to help you out mate :lift:

Happy Lifting!

samurai69 · 27-03-2005, 12:36 AM

Basically what ChefX and Big say.

Compound exercises and the right diet will both go a long way in the right direction, what MA, and are you still involved with the MA's

Malakor · 27-03-2005, 04:04 AM

I have a very similar background, so I know what it's like. I used to do Lau Gar Kung Fu twice a week, and those sessions were gruelling to say the least. I must have tried every combo of weight training, diet, supplementation, you name it.......but progress was extremely slow nonetheless. When I used to tell my mates that I went down the gym they would always say "Was it closed when you got there?" the cheeky basts! Eventually I decided enough was enough, and decided to research up on AAS. After a few months I convinced myself a one month course of anabols was the way to go - and have never looked back since! I don't know what it is about genetic makeup, but am sure being a 'late developer' has a lot to do with it; much in the way a plant striving towards the light will grow spindly in it's initial development.
But what the hell - now it's my turn to laugh as the shoe is most definitely on the other foot!

**Jimmy** · 27-03-2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river

need to gain quality muscle...

ask robdog

he has the same problem

river · 27-03-2005, 02:41 PM

thanx everyone for your helpful replies and making me feel at home here..

ok, so i've read up a bit and drafted this eating plan, but could do with some more pointers, like how the hell do I eat all of this stuff!!! I'm missing some carbs (target 420g), i think protein comes to around 119g, which is inline with my target weight of 70kg (1.7 ratio)

06:00 2 x Weetabix with milk
08:00 2 x Eggs on toast & fruit juice
09:00 1 x Banana
11:00 1 x Half-pint of milk
13:00 2 x Jacket Potatoes with cheese and margarine
14:00 1 x Half-pint of milk
16:00 2 x Beans on toast
18:30 1 x Chicken with vegetables and fruit juice
20:00 1 x Crisps or chocolate

does this look remotely right? and if not what should i change?

thanx again for your advice, river.

**big** · 27-03-2005, 02:55 PM

River, you need far more protein than that (IMO you should be shooting for 300g+), and the fats should come from good clean sources like oils. You're also going too dirty especially late at night with crisps. Beans on toast shouldn't even figure into a diet. You should be eating lots of beef and far more chicken.

river · 27-03-2005, 03:04 PM

thanx guys, the bbc fitness site said anymore than 2g protein per kg of bodyweight wouldn't build muscle, and gave 1.6-1.7 as a guide (so that must be for just standard fitness or something, confused me anyway!!)

so, i'll lose the crisps/chocolate, and take fats from good oils (like olive oil?), and stack on some more fish, beef and chicken.

what shall i replace the beans on toast with? anything not -too- heavy for a snack?

oh, and are the carbs too high at 420?

river.

**big** · 27-03-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by river

thanx guys, the bbc fitness site said anymore than 2g per kg of bodyweight wouldn't build muscle, and gave 1.6-1.7 as a guide.

so, i'll lose the crisps/chocolate, and take fats from good oils (like what?), and stack on some more fish or chicken.

what shall i replace the beans on toast with? anything not -too- heavy for a snack?

oh, and are the carbs too high at 420?

river.

Unfortunately I doubt any bodybuilders write the bbc fitness website. You get a lot of guys who weigh 170lbs and less soaking wet saying that you don't need lots of protein to grow. But look at the vast majority of the bigger bodybuilders - they're all taking in HUGE quantities of protein. Coleman, Yates, Cutler etc etc all boatload the protein. I generally learn by the example of those people far bigger and stronger than me rather than a 160lb writer of a fitness site.

Good oils are fish oils (take lots of caps/day) and extra virgin olive oil.

Just replace the beans on toast with some chicken or fish and veggies... maybe some rice too.

The carbs may be too high at 420 - it's difficult to tell as it depends on how you respond to carbs. I respond badly to carbs, so even at 210lbs, I keep my carb intake very low even when bulking. But for you, at your weight, you probably won't gain much fat. The only thing you can do is try with carbs that high and see what happens - if you start gaining much fat, cut them back.

Personally I would say start off on these macros since you want to add so much mass and you're most likely an ecto:

Protein: 300-360g
Carbs: 300g
Fats: 150g

This gives you about 3750-4000 calories. This should come from unprocessed foods. Try to take in the majority of the carbs earlier in the day.

If you find you're gaining fat after a week or two, cut the macros back by 5%. If you find you're not gaining anything, increase them by 5%. Keep doing this until you get the weight gain you want without getting fat.

river · 27-03-2005, 03:29 PM

thanks for the detailed information, thats really helpsm and i'll use those stats as my basis as you suggest.

finally, in terms of lifting etc.. you said earlier:

"Your workout routine needs compounds - squats and deadlifts. You don't need to be eating into your recovery time with curls. Stick to the basic compounds (squats, deads, bench, military press, chins, rows), and split your workout into two different sessions each week, keeping volume low at each session."

so if i do low reps 6-8, with more weight without the recovery time, a few times a week, i should be ok for a start?

river.

26-03-2005, 09:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	need to gain quality muscle.. hi there, this is my first post. firstly i'd just like to say i've taken a while to have a look round and read quite a few posts, and really liked the relaxed atmosphere on this board. my stats are: 25 years old 5'8" height (171cm) 9 stone (57kg) approx BMI 19.19 athletic build muscle definition, but generally light-weight :( I'm determined to bulk up to a healthy and muscular 11 stone (70kg). I have access to a good range of gym equipment and have been working out (for martial arts mainly) for quite a few years. I just never seem to be able to maintain weight past 10 stone, it always drops to about 9. I try eating more but i've come to the conclusion i'm just not eating the right stuff to add that amount of weight in a healthy manner. I'd really appreciate your comments on this, and any suggestions as to how to add the weight in muscle, whilst staying healthy and not throwing up everywhere on bizarre cocktails ;) I think I understand the principles of eating more than the metabolism can get through, but i'm lost in terms of meals, do i need supplements, and the type of lifting i should be doing. seriously, thanks for taking the time to read this and happy lifting. river.

26-03-2005, 09:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
jugganaut Gym Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London Ennit! Posts: 154	One thing you need to know. Test is always best. IMO what ever cycle your doing test should always be part of it. You could a testosterone enanthate only cycle @200mg-400mg per week for 10 weeks. __________________ It's not pain your feeling, its progress.

26-03-2005, 10:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
ChefX Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A Secret Laboratory outside of Washington DC Posts: 1,870	you eating horrible in a way, not near enough proteins and fats time to overhaul the diet first off try and eat at least equal macronutrients for a few weeks (adjust your calories weekly by 500 until your gaining about 1/2 lb a week) that will make a vast impact eat some food! __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *The Regimen X Bodybuilding System by The Family of X* In the great Greek poem by Constantine Cavafy titled "Ithaka," We are reminded that it is the voyage and the adventures on the way that count, not the arrival itself.

27-03-2005, 04:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
Malakor Newbie Trainer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 77	I have a very similar background, so I know what it's like. I used to do Lau Gar Kung Fu twice a week, and those sessions were gruelling to say the least. I must have tried every combo of weight training, diet, supplementation, you name it.......but progress was extremely slow nonetheless. When I used to tell my mates that I went down the gym they would always say "Was it closed when you got there?" the cheeky basts! Eventually I decided enough was enough, and decided to research up on AAS. After a few months I convinced myself a one month course of anabols was the way to go - and have never looked back since! I don't know what it is about genetic makeup, but am sure being a 'late developer' has a lot to do with it; much in the way a plant striving towards the light will grow spindly in it's initial development. But what the hell - now it's my turn to laugh as the shoe is most definitely on the other foot! __________________ . . . . . . 'The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom' - William Blake

27-03-2005, 02:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	thanx everyone for your helpful replies and making me feel at home here.. ok, so i've read up a bit and drafted this eating plan, but could do with some more pointers, like how the hell do I eat all of this stuff!!! I'm missing some carbs (target 420g), i think protein comes to around 119g, which is inline with my target weight of 70kg (1.7 ratio) 06:00 2 x Weetabix with milk 08:00 2 x Eggs on toast & fruit juice 09:00 1 x Banana 11:00 1 x Half-pint of milk 13:00 2 x Jacket Potatoes with cheese and margarine 14:00 1 x Half-pint of milk 16:00 2 x Beans on toast 18:30 1 x Chicken with vegetables and fruit juice 20:00 1 x Crisps or chocolate does this look remotely right? and if not what should i change? thanx again for your advice, river. __________________ Current Weight: 8st 7lbs !!!! (updated 24/04/08) Target Weight: 10st ------------------------------------------- Equipment: Powertec Power Rack - On order ------------------------------------------- Routine: Abbreviated, Squat/Deadlift/Dips or Bench/Pull-ups. Medicine ball for core work. -------------------------------------------

26-03-2005, 09:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,407	I agree that test is a great base for any cycle, but he's only 9 stone. He should be able to gain loads more naturally first. The fact that he can't is an indicator that either his training or his diet or both are wrong. Post up your current diet and we'll be able to show you what changes you need to make. And post up your current training split and we'll show you what you need to change with that too It sounds like you're a classic ectomorph hardgainer, which means you will probably respond extremely well to low volume training and an extremely high calorie diet.

26-03-2005, 10:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	thanx for your replies.. my current diet is: breakfast: white toast OR cereal/fruit juice lunch: white bread sandwiches, tuna OR jacket potato, beans etc.. dinner: pasta (plate full) cheese sauce. snack: oranges, toast. water: 4 glasses a day. vitamin: centrium complete. current workout is (probably twice a week) bench press 3x12 arm curl 3x12 butterflys 3x12 leg curls 3x12 sit ups x 50 press ups x 25 i know thats is not a good bulky diet and light workout, hence my post and the desire to make postive changes. your advice is very much appreciated. river.

26-03-2005, 10:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,407	Okay both your diet and workout could use some work. You diet needs far more protein with each meal, more healthy fats, and better carb sources. You should also be eating 5-6 times a day minimum. Try to get in at each meal a protein source (lean meat or fish), a good carb source (brown rice, wholemeal pasta etc) and some healthy fats (in the form of oils). You should also double, or even triple (or more) your water intake. I suspect you have a small appetite, like most ecto hardgainers, but you really need to boatload the calories to gain mass. Blend food if necessary - just get it down you! Your workout routine needs compounds - squats and deadlifts. You don't need to be eating into your recovery time with curls. Stick to the basic compounds (squats, deads, bench, military press, chins, rows), and split your workout into two different sessions each week, keeping volume low at each session. Ensure you get 8 hours sleep each night.

27-03-2005, 12:36 AM	#8 (permalink)
samurai69 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mid Portugal - by the sea Posts: 3,076	Basically what ChefX and Big say. Compound exercises and the right diet will both go a long way in the right direction, what MA, and are you still involved with the MA's

27-03-2005, 02:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,407	River, you need far more protein than that (IMO you should be shooting for 300g+), and the fats should come from good clean sources like oils. You're also going too dirty especially late at night with crisps. Beans on toast shouldn't even figure into a diet. You should be eating lots of beef and far more chicken.

27-03-2005, 03:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	thanx guys, the bbc fitness site said anymore than 2g protein per kg of bodyweight wouldn't build muscle, and gave 1.6-1.7 as a guide (so that must be for just standard fitness or something, confused me anyway!!) so, i'll lose the crisps/chocolate, and take fats from good oils (like olive oil?), and stack on some more fish, beef and chicken. what shall i replace the beans on toast with? anything not -too- heavy for a snack? oh, and are the carbs too high at 420? river. __________________ Current Weight: 8st 7lbs !!!! (updated 24/04/08) Target Weight: 10st ------------------------------------------- Equipment: Powertec Power Rack - On order ------------------------------------------- Routine: Abbreviated, Squat/Deadlift/Dips or Bench/Pull-ups. Medicine ball for core work. ------------------------------------------- Last edited by river; 27-03-2005 at 03:23 PM.

27-03-2005, 03:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	thanks for the detailed information, thats really helpsm and i'll use those stats as my basis as you suggest. finally, in terms of lifting etc.. you said earlier: "Your workout routine needs compounds - squats and deadlifts. You don't need to be eating into your recovery time with curls. Stick to the basic compounds (squats, deads, bench, military press, chins, rows), and split your workout into two different sessions each week, keeping volume low at each session." so if i do low reps 6-8, with more weight without the recovery time, a few times a week, i should be ok for a start? river. __________________ Current Weight: 8st 7lbs !!!! (updated 24/04/08) Target Weight: 10st ------------------------------------------- Equipment: Powertec Power Rack - On order ------------------------------------------- Routine: Abbreviated, Squat/Deadlift/Dips or Bench/Pull-ups. Medicine ball for core work. -------------------------------------------