Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

river · 19-11-2007, 10:01 PM

Hi all, I'm in a bit of a mix.

I've got 2 goals which conflict big time!

(1) To build up my chest, shoulders and arms eating lots, and training hard.
(2) To improve my healthy nutritious vegetarian diet, moving towards a raw food diet.

I have read and read, tried various things, different plans but really can't get these two goals to co-exist! I'm really am trying hard, but can't seem to eat enough -quality- foods. I don't want to compromise my diet for the muscle, and vice-versa.

Has anyone actually managed to do this? or has anyone got any advice that may help me out?

Cheers guys, I know it may sound mad, but It's something I need to make work.

**hackskii** · 19-11-2007, 10:05 PM

Well, I honestly dont believe a vegetarian diet is healthy.
There are defficencies in a vegetarian diet that other diets dont have.
Like for example defficencies in creatine, B-12 and other vitamins.
The only sources for B-12 is in animal products.
I would speculate that creatine by itself would be one big bummer, but that you can supplement.
B-12 can be taken orally or with injection.
I think the biggest challenge would be to find protein sources that would be complete.

Can you eat eggs, or fish?

thestudbeast · 19-11-2007, 10:35 PM

If I where you I'd go speak to Johnathon, he's a mod on the myprotein forum. He's a vegan and huge. I think I read he eat's over 6000 cals a day........ from a vegan diet.

Hacks has pointed out the difficulties, it can be done but will take much more planning on your part.

**hackskii** · 19-11-2007, 10:50 PM

Stu, is Johathon natural?

As Stu said, the defficencies are well known with vegetarian diets, it can be done, me peronally feel they are less healthy, but they can be done and I do have a vegetarian friend that takes in very little protein and is totally shreaded and looks great.
He says he is natural but he is very impressive looking and very strong.

thestudbeast · 19-11-2007, 10:58 PM

I beleive he's natural. He uses pea protein powder and blends it with other stuff. I didn't pay so much notice to his protein sources because mine are so much better

. I think he posts on a vegan bodybuilding forum so there is the info out there but us meat eaters are probably not the best resource.

**hackskii** · 19-11-2007, 11:09 PM

Oh yah, I got ya.
I was a bit curious if he used soy.
then the questions were gonna fly, some like soy being a phytoestrogen

thestudbeast · 19-11-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

Oh yah, I got ya.
I was a bit curious if he used soy.
then the questions were gonna fly, some like soy being a phytoestrogen

Ye aload of unfermented soy in your diet would not be good. A little fermented soy on the other hand is a different issue.

thestudbeast · 19-11-2007, 11:29 PM

Ok here's his diet......... does have alot of soy :O, amazed he has any test production at all. Still the body will readjust given time in most cases.

I posted this on another forum about a month back for the benefit of a guy who had just gone vegan. It is still pretty accurate now, as my diet does not change much.

Now this is only an average as I have no daily routine due to doing shift work (not nights though). I'll post it for a standard, non-training day.

0900: 100g oats, banana, 15g flax oil, water blended to fine consistancy (you need a decent blender to tackle oats). 600kcal

1030: 400g organic soya fruit yoghurt/500g org (organic) plain soya yoghurt. 300kcal

1200: Solid meal 1. This is generally left over food from last night or freshly cooked pasta with tomato sauce and tofu/tofu sausages. 800kcal

1300: Protein smoothie. Banana, 30g pea protein, 15g org cocoa powder, 15g flax/rapeseed oil, 300ml org unsweetened soya milk. This is actually seriously tasty! 500kcal

1430: Snack, along the lines of 100g mixed fruit and nuts, or chocolate and fruit juice. 500kcal

1630: Shake, either protein (as above) if I am training, or oat (as first meal) if I am at work. 500kcal

1730: Solid meal 2. Curry, quinoa with sauce, bangers and mash, stir fry, burgers etc. Anything really. This comes much later on a training day and is substituted with a pre-workout drink of dextrose and fruit juice, and post workout Alpro soya shakes. 1000kcal

1930: Another soya yoghurt. 300kcal

2100: Solid meal 3. Sandwiche - seitan slices (tastes like smoked turkey I have been told) on org olive sourdough bread. 500kcal

2300: Protein shake (if I have to get up early), oat shake (if I don't) 500kcal

Sub-total - 5500kcal

On top of that I get a few glasses of fruit juice/alpro shakes, that bump it up to around 5800kcal. You can clearly see that I don't eat that much solid food, but I used to have a retching disorder until last year, and I'm gradually moving back to more solids. I know that they are the key to uber calories, so that is what I am focusing on

**hackskii** · 20-11-2007, 01:19 AM

Wow, id like to comment on this tomorrow.
This is interesting big time to me...............
I don't stick to anyone thing, nor allow myself to hold fast to what I believe.
I like new things.
This just intregues me big time.

Until tomorrow............

cyberheater · 20-11-2007, 06:51 AM

Well it's not surprising considering some of the biggest and strongest animals on earth derive all there nutrients from vegetable material.

Just look at the great apes.

TaintedSoul · 20-11-2007, 07:16 AM

WOW.... he eats every 1 1/2 but I would like to see that listed with the protein intake per meal??

Anyone got pictures of this guy?

TaintedSoul · 20-11-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberheater

Well it's not surprising considering some of the biggest and strongest animals on earth derive all there nutrients from vegetable material.

Just look at the great apes.

makes you wonder huh? I was arguing protein with my brother once and he said "so why does a horse have so much muscle on it?" ... and I dont know?

I still havent found a decent patch of grass to graze on so I can test that theory!!

Jonathan · 20-11-2007, 05:31 PM

Hi,

I was refered to this thread by thestudbeast (allthegoodnamesaregone, on myprotein).

Pretty funny that I am being referenced now on forums I have never even been to! I would consider myself a novice strength athlete (competing in strongman) - nothing more!

However, I do know a lot of vegan strongmen competing in the Scottish and British comps - I have competed against 6 different guys. The strongest of these is a chap called Ian Plews who trains at our gym. He has been vegan since May, and has made big improvements since then. He is 5ft 5", 107kg, and has competed at Scottish and UK level. In his last training session on Sunday, he clean and pressed 8x120kg, 15inch deadlifted 6x280kg and squatted 15x180kg.

Anyway, I would argue that a vegan diet holds absolutely no disadvantage to strength and muscle gaining. I have seen a good number of vegan lifters progress from modest beginnings to competing within a few short years. This is my first year of competing, and I have done 6 comps this year, placing 3rd twice, and 2nd in my last comp. I plan to undertake the qualifiers for Scotlands Strongest Man in February.

For the record, my stats are:

6ft 8"
130kg
23yrs old
185kg squat
140kg close grip bench
260kg deadlift
115kg clean and press

And a whole pile of strongman related stuff on top of that.

I am natural too

Here is a video from my last competition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFMVDC-jR4

Jonathan

**hackskii** · 20-11-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Hi,

I was refered to this thread by thestudbeast (allthegoodnamesaregone, on myprotein).

Pretty funny that I am being referenced now on forums I have never even been to! I would consider myself a novice strength athlete (competing in strongman) - nothing more!

However, I do know a lot of vegan strongmen competing in the Scottish and British comps - I have competed against 6 different guys. The strongest of these is a chap called Ian Plews who trains at our gym. He has been vegan since May, and has made big improvements since then. He is 5ft 5", 107kg, and has competed at Scottish and UK level. In his last training session on Sunday, he clean and pressed 8x120kg, 15inch deadlifted 6x280kg and squatted 15x180kg.

Anyway, I would argue that a vegan diet holds absolutely no disadvantage to strength and muscle gaining. I have seen a good number of vegan lifters progress from modest beginnings to competing within a few short years. This is my first year of competing, and I have done 6 comps this year, placing 3rd twice, and 2nd in my last comp. I plan to undertake the qualifiers for Scotlands Strongest Man in February.

For the record, my stats are:

6ft 8"
130kg
23yrs old
185kg squat
140kg close grip bench
260kg deadlift
115kg clean and press

And a whole pile of strongman related stuff on top of that.

I am natural too

Here is a video from my last competition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFMVDC-jR4

Jonathan

I like that video.

ParaManiac · 20-11-2007, 06:06 PM

Hello Jonathan and welcome,impressive video!

19-11-2007, 10:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
river Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34	Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Hi all, I'm in a bit of a mix. I've got 2 goals which conflict big time! (1) To build up my chest, shoulders and arms eating lots, and training hard. (2) To improve my healthy nutritious vegetarian diet, moving towards a raw food diet. I have read and read, tried various things, different plans but really can't get these two goals to co-exist! I'm really am trying hard, but can't seem to eat enough -quality- foods. I don't want to compromise my diet for the muscle, and vice-versa. Has anyone actually managed to do this? or has anyone got any advice that may help me out? Cheers guys, I know it may sound mad, but It's something I need to make work. __________________ Current Weight: 8st 7lbs !!!! (updated 24/04/08) Target Weight: 10st ------------------------------------------- Equipment: Powertec Power Rack - On order ------------------------------------------- Routine: Abbreviated, Squat/Deadlift/Dips or Bench/Pull-ups. Medicine ball for core work. -------------------------------------------

19-11-2007, 10:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,704	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Well, I honestly dont believe a vegetarian diet is healthy. There are defficencies in a vegetarian diet that other diets dont have. Like for example defficencies in creatine, B-12 and other vitamins. The only sources for B-12 is in animal products. I would speculate that creatine by itself would be one big bummer, but that you can supplement. B-12 can be taken orally or with injection. I think the biggest challenge would be to find protein sources that would be complete. Can you eat eggs, or fish? __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 19-11-2007 at 10:11 PM.

19-11-2007, 10:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
thestudbeast bann3d Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Weston super mud Posts: 1,360	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! If I where you I'd go speak to Johnathon, he's a mod on the myprotein forum. He's a vegan and huge. I think I read he eat's over 6000 cals a day........ from a vegan diet. Hacks has pointed out the difficulties, it can be done but will take much more planning on your part.

19-11-2007, 10:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,704	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Stu, is Johathon natural? As Stu said, the defficencies are well known with vegetarian diets, it can be done, me peronally feel they are less healthy, but they can be done and I do have a vegetarian friend that takes in very little protein and is totally shreaded and looks great. He says he is natural but he is very impressive looking and very strong. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-11-2007, 10:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
thestudbeast bann3d Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Weston super mud Posts: 1,360	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! I beleive he's natural. He uses pea protein powder and blends it with other stuff. I didn't pay so much notice to his protein sources because mine are so much better . I think he posts on a vegan bodybuilding forum so there is the info out there but us meat eaters are probably not the best resource.

19-11-2007, 11:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,704	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Oh yah, I got ya. I was a bit curious if he used soy. then the questions were gonna fly, some like soy being a phytoestrogen __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-11-2007, 11:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
thestudbeast bann3d Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Weston super mud Posts: 1,360	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Ok here's his diet......... does have alot of soy :O, amazed he has any test production at all. Still the body will readjust given time in most cases. I posted this on another forum about a month back for the benefit of a guy who had just gone vegan. It is still pretty accurate now, as my diet does not change much. Now this is only an average as I have no daily routine due to doing shift work (not nights though). I'll post it for a standard, non-training day. 0900: 100g oats, banana, 15g flax oil, water blended to fine consistancy (you need a decent blender to tackle oats). 600kcal 1030: 400g organic soya fruit yoghurt/500g org (organic) plain soya yoghurt. 300kcal 1200: Solid meal 1. This is generally left over food from last night or freshly cooked pasta with tomato sauce and tofu/tofu sausages. 800kcal 1300: Protein smoothie. Banana, 30g pea protein, 15g org cocoa powder, 15g flax/rapeseed oil, 300ml org unsweetened soya milk. This is actually seriously tasty! 500kcal 1430: Snack, along the lines of 100g mixed fruit and nuts, or chocolate and fruit juice. 500kcal 1630: Shake, either protein (as above) if I am training, or oat (as first meal) if I am at work. 500kcal 1730: Solid meal 2. Curry, quinoa with sauce, bangers and mash, stir fry, burgers etc. Anything really. This comes much later on a training day and is substituted with a pre-workout drink of dextrose and fruit juice, and post workout Alpro soya shakes. 1000kcal 1930: Another soya yoghurt. 300kcal 2100: Solid meal 3. Sandwiche - seitan slices (tastes like smoked turkey I have been told) on org olive sourdough bread. 500kcal 2300: Protein shake (if I have to get up early), oat shake (if I don't) 500kcal Sub-total - 5500kcal On top of that I get a few glasses of fruit juice/alpro shakes, that bump it up to around 5800kcal. You can clearly see that I don't eat that much solid food, but I used to have a retching disorder until last year, and I'm gradually moving back to more solids. I know that they are the key to uber calories, so that is what I am focusing on

20-11-2007, 01:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,704	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Wow, id like to comment on this tomorrow. This is interesting big time to me............... I don't stick to anyone thing, nor allow myself to hold fast to what I believe. I like new things. This just intregues me big time. Until tomorrow............ __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

20-11-2007, 06:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
cyberheater Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 375	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Well it's not surprising considering some of the biggest and strongest animals on earth derive all there nutrients from vegetable material. Just look at the great apes.

20-11-2007, 07:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
TaintedSoul The resident dirty Saffir! Join Date: May 2007 Location: 69 Axe wound mile Posts: 3,693	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! WOW.... he eats every 1 1/2 but I would like to see that listed with the protein intake per meal?? Anyone got pictures of this guy? __________________ _________________________________________________ There's those that do, and those that don't, Those that will, and those that won't, Those that can, and those that can't. ..... Dont be a loser!! ....

20-11-2007, 05:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jonathan Newbie Trainer Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Hi, I was refered to this thread by thestudbeast (allthegoodnamesaregone, on myprotein). Pretty funny that I am being referenced now on forums I have never even been to! I would consider myself a novice strength athlete (competing in strongman) - nothing more! However, I do know a lot of vegan strongmen competing in the Scottish and British comps - I have competed against 6 different guys. The strongest of these is a chap called Ian Plews who trains at our gym. He has been vegan since May, and has made big improvements since then. He is 5ft 5", 107kg, and has competed at Scottish and UK level. In his last training session on Sunday, he clean and pressed 8x120kg, 15inch deadlifted 6x280kg and squatted 15x180kg. Anyway, I would argue that a vegan diet holds absolutely no disadvantage to strength and muscle gaining. I have seen a good number of vegan lifters progress from modest beginnings to competing within a few short years. This is my first year of competing, and I have done 6 comps this year, placing 3rd twice, and 2nd in my last comp. I plan to undertake the qualifiers for Scotlands Strongest Man in February. For the record, my stats are: 6ft 8" 130kg 23yrs old 185kg squat 140kg close grip bench 260kg deadlift 115kg clean and press And a whole pile of strongman related stuff on top of that. I am natural too Here is a video from my last competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFMVDC-jR4 Jonathan

20-11-2007, 06:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
ParaManiac aint life grand! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,000	Re: Gaining Weight on Salad!!!! Hello Jonathan and welcome,impressive video! __________________ When a man opens the car door for his wife, it's either a new car or a new wife. Prince Philip To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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