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Old 25-06-2007, 07:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARNIE View Post
people who crash diet and then go back to normal eating always put the weight back on and more,as the human body does have ways to protect itself against famine which people had to suffer generations ago when crops failed or there was shortage of food stuff's etc then the people who could put weight on as muscle and fat by storing it in high amounts would have the better chance of survival at the next shortage of food ,this is why we have so many fattys in the 1st world now because bodys evolved so well at storing food as energy in the form of muscle and fat,so i think there might be a good scientific possibility of this having some truth in it.
I get your point Arnie but you are talking about calorie depletion, the article is talking about macronutrient manipulation, the calories stay the same its the ratios that differ so there should be no 'starvation response' which you quite rightly pointed out is the cause of many a weight gain through yo yo dieting.

SD
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Old 25-06-2007, 07:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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I also call bull, but then in Belgium they used a similar technique to create the worlds largest leanest cows (Cant remember the breed name). This happened through necessity not choice though as it was all dependant on food rations avaliable at the time.

If I can be bothered i will look up some info on it............
They did that through genetic manipulation mate, using the myostatin gene.

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Old 25-06-2007, 07:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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Originally Posted by Tinytom View Post
No way thats possible

The body just doesnt build muscle that fast.

Muscle building is in response to a stimulus from training or muscular overload

Carb supercompensation is to do with depleted energy levels. Because carbs and fat are primary energy sources the body has storage mechanisms for them i.e. liver and msucel glycogen and fat stores

I odnt recall reading anywhere about a protein storage mechanism except in the amino acids in muscles i.e. muscle fibres.

The body doesnt need to store protein as itdoesnt get any of its energy from this source unless you are instarvation and fat and carb stores are depleted.

You have a storing capacity for amino acids in your blood, I read 'somewhere' that there is at least 150g of aminos circulating in your blood at any one time, which makes sense. I don't think depleting this store would lead to supercompensation at all though.

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Old 26-06-2007, 12:40 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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Originally Posted by SportDr View Post
You have a storing capacity for amino acids in your blood, I read 'somewhere' that there is at least 150g of aminos circulating in your blood at any one time, which makes sense. I don't think depleting this store would lead to supercompensation at all though.

SD
Yeah I think I've seen that somewhere as well

But it really pales next to the ability of storage of carbs as glycogen. I've also read some interesting titbits on anabolic response from depleting amino acids which is why I never have a midnight protein snack or take a protein shake before bed.

I always get a better response from the morning protein shake after a 8-10 hour protein fast.

Same as how I never take a protein shake right before training as I want to fully deplete my aminos from training and then take maximum benefit from the PWO shake and anabolic window etc.
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Old 26-06-2007, 12:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytom View Post
Yeah I think I've seen that somewhere as well

But it really pales next to the ability of storage of carbs as glycogen. I've also read some interesting titbits on anabolic response from depleting amino acids which is why I never have a midnight protein snack or take a protein shake before bed.

I always get a better response from the morning protein shake after a 8-10 hour protein fast.

Same as how I never take a protein shake right before training as I want to fully deplete my aminos from training and then take maximum benefit from the PWO shake and anabolic window etc.
At last someone agrees with me on the nightime shake thing!!

I have done it of course, but never noticed any difference apart from very dark wee in the morning which I have tested using a urinalysis dipstick and it was packed with protein (ie I just p1ssed it all out). Without the shake I appreciate my breakfast a lot more too.

Did you know though, that the nightime 'fast' is considered to be natures way of detoxing the body? 8 hours without food is perfect for allowing your organs to cleans and heal themselves, why overload them with unecessary protein? Sure we heal overnight and our GH and test levels rise naturally, so we are growing too, but with a large amino pool to call on why add more, like a glass that is full, adding more water just spills it over the top.

Protein metabolism produces toxic waste products, nitrogen, urea, ammonia, your organs want to sleep and heal too, how can they with that lot floating around the bloodstream....

The only aminos you need overnight are Arginine and Ornithine in a dosage of a few grams, to raise GH levels further, which they have been scientifically proven to do. Glutamine however has been proven to do didly squat in most but not all studies I have read, the theory was nice tho!

SD
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Old 27-06-2007, 12:59 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportDr View Post
At last someone agrees with me on the nightime shake thing!!

I have done it of course, but never noticed any difference apart from very dark wee in the morning which I have tested using a urinalysis dipstick and it was packed with protein (ie I just p1ssed it all out). Without the shake I appreciate my breakfast a lot more too.

Did you know though, that the nightime 'fast' is considered to be natures way of detoxing the body? 8 hours without food is perfect for allowing your organs to cleans and heal themselves, why overload them with unecessary protein? Sure we heal overnight and our GH and test levels rise naturally, so we are growing too, but with a large amino pool to call on why add more, like a glass that is full, adding more water just spills it over the top.

Protein metabolism produces toxic waste products, nitrogen, urea, ammonia, your organs want to sleep and heal too, how can they with that lot floating around the bloodstream....

The only aminos you need overnight are Arginine and Ornithine in a dosage of a few grams, to raise GH levels further, which they have been scientifically proven to do. Glutamine however has been proven to do didly squat in most but not all studies I have read, the theory was nice tho!

SD

I have learnt something valuable here.. cheers SD, good info. Thats a lot of bedtime servings saved from wasted protein over a month!
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Old 27-06-2007, 06:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
sport doc have you read susan kleiner power eating book- i found it really helpfull, also maybe worth a recommended reading section/book review type of page?
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Old 27-06-2007, 07:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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sport doc have you read susan kleiner power eating book- i found it really helpfull, also maybe worth a recommended reading section/book review type of page?
Not read that no, will check it out on Amazon, thanks.

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Old 28-06-2007, 06:13 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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Not read that no, will check it out on Amazon, thanks.

SD
No need mate, ive got a copy you can borrow

While it may not apply 100% to bodybuilding it is worth a read all the same.I remember getting it years back and thinking sh!t have i really got to eat all that to grow:crazy:
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Old 28-06-2007, 06:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
anything that sounds too good to be true......is!!! Simple as that!!!
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Old 30-06-2007, 12:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
That was alot of great posts. Good stuff everyone.

Sport Dr. whats your last meal of the day and what time.
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Old 30-06-2007, 11:07 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
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That was alot of great posts. Good stuff everyone.

Sport Dr. whats your last meal of the day and what time.
Full on meal is between 7&8 on work nights, often lots of veg, some chicken usually and alow GI starch such as sweet potato.

Cheers

SD
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Old 01-07-2007, 03:19 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Adding 4 - 5lbs of muscle... in 10 days?
Thats the end of yellow wee then! Thanks for the info.
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