demon

LOL
I hope you'd had a good relaxing holiday!

Musclehed

hackskii,

Just a question, How come your post work out meal 'potato, steak 6-8 OZ. Small handfull peanuts'

I have protein powder and some simple carbs (50/50 mix of dextrose and malto) then as a post post work out meal one like you have (meat and starchy carbs). Since after a workout;

1. Glycogen Stores are low
2. Protein Breakdown is increased
3. Muscle Protein Balance is negative

For the reason of high G.I carbs with fast digesting/acting protein (ALA before this meal). I also add come glutmine and some other BCAA's

Good point about the fiber, many people do not have enought, I take ground physillium husk and some fiber 1 cerial.

robin_3_16

what?

Insanity

Seconded, what???

robin_3_16

glad i am not the only one!

Musclehed

Hey, I was just asking hackskii about his post workout food choices, and his reasoning

And describing mine (with reasoning)

robin_3_16

oh i am interested to hear this too i need a good post workout meal mine is currently 2 chicken breasts and a baked potato cottage cheese and tuna
a bit bored of it though

hackskii

Oh, guys just found this. Question was asked 2-22-04
Responding 05-12-04, only been 3 months later
I might be a little slow. I have a good excuse, "I never saw it"!

Musclehead, I dont eat alot of the processed foods.
I dont like the bars, the drinks, the powders.
I like the better protein sources and feel that meats, chicken, fish and especially eggs are better than the powders. I can go into detail further on this for my reasoning why (upon request).

I try and eat ballanced unless I am bulking then I up the carbs, and everything
If I am deiting then I drop the carbs.
My favorite way to eat is the 40-30-30 method.

I cook up all my food the night before, then toss everything into my lunch box and eat it every few hours a day.
I hate to eat before a workout as it not only makes me feel slow but weighted down during my lifting and is quite a distraction.
I dont eat alot of simple carbs (alot of guys do) I also train from 11:00-11:30 every day except Saturday and lifting for 20 minutes wont deplete my glycogen stores, also
At the time about between 11:30-12:00 when I do eat, I dont like to eat the simple carbs that early. I am up at 5:00 every morning and eat the simple carbs early then when the afternoon wears on I switch over to the lower glycemic index carbs.
I personally have a problem with weight gain and literally have to watch what I eat.

Except when I cycle then its on in the eating department. Hey, what the heck food tasts better too.

I have eaten many diffrent ways growing up and did not notice much except dieting down. I have made steady gains for the last 28 years and am not into this for anything other in looking good for my age.
I used to eat everything i could get my hands on when I was young and never gain weight, now I find the opposite happening.

I find I have a problem with insuline resistence and try to keep this in check as much as possible for health reasons.

Again, sorry for not posting a few months earlier

Killerkeane

now that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p ;)

Spartacus

I had one of those, too. She floated off with the magnum of loose change we'd been saving for yonks. Ten days later I got a letter from her telling me how much was in it - £301-22p. Was I mad!

Jimmy

Very important point being made here and if more people thought like this, their would be a lot more monsters in the gyms!!!!!

WHOLE FOOD IS THE WAY TO GO!!!!!!

I wrote an article for MT which kind of ties in to this, I will find it now.....

Jimmy

should I rely on protein powders

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi folks,

I was asked once a very good question regarding why I advise against supplementing protein powders in high amounts. Now this got me thinking and I decided to write my opinions for others to read and think for themselves.

I would like to say that this is only my view on the subject and in no way am I telling people that I have hard scientific evidence to back up my thoughts. So as I said before, this post is designed to make others think a little instead of listening to all the data shoved at us by supps companies and taking it for granted that they are correct.

My theories are all based on trial and error in bodybuilding and even if I learn something new, I will try it before I agree/disagree with it because proof is in the pudding.

I believe that people place too much trust in protein supplements as opposed to the whole food option.

Now I agree with protein powders PWO mainly cos I would yak if I ate more than a few rice cakes and fruit at this time! Chicken and rice is out of the Q here but I have used blended tuna and fruit PWO.

The only other time I use whey is if I miss a meal or cant possably eat food due to inconveinience ( Which is not very often )

There are two reasons why I opt for whole food.

The first is that in 11 years of training I've used every single fad supplement going ( anyone remember cybergenics LOL? ) I dont think I can credit an ounce of mass to using supplementss. I've gone from no food and supplements only!!!!, to all whole food and no supplements.

I agree that using supplemented protein powders only is extreme and that no one here ever trys this but never the less, I shrunk LOL Stupid young lad!

I went through periods where I used 3-4 meals and 3-4 drinks and when I eliminated the shakes I noticed no loss of mass. Similarly when I started to use the drinks again I experienced no increase in mass either!

The second reason, one that I have posted before was learned during my diet.

My diet plan for last years show consisted of one food meal followed by one supplement meal, and so on... When the diet started to bite I went hypoglycemic after the supplement meals but never after the food meals.

Near to the show all my foods changed to solids and not only did I feel like a new man, but the quality of my appearance improved dramatically!! This spoke volumes to me and if supplements were no good to me dieting, then why would they be bulking.

I now use whole food only and am growing faster than ever guys, whole food IMO works better, period.

I think a lot of the high protein theories are concocted by supplement companies that want to sell! They tell us that we need X amount of protein per day that is sooooo high that we could only consume this derived of food and supplements combined.

I am in close assosiation with a partner in a supplement company and he only eats whole food as well. He even told me once to cut back my supplement intake to PWO and inconveinient times! Now what could he possably have to gain by this?

IMO 400g of protein 70/30 food to powder works no better than 300g whole food only!

I agree that its hard for newbies to eat so much but IMO they will gain a lot on a little anyway. Thats why I always recomend they start at 3-4 whole food meals containing quality P,C&F ( which lets face it, in this day and age is nearly always an improvement on their current diets ). When they are used to this and their apetites/stomachs have stretched, they can then increas by a meal at a time.

I also feel that supps these days are very over priced for the benefit they give, which is disheartening for young guys aspiring to Ronnie or Jay, thinking that a tub with the picture of a pro on will make them that big too!!! I remember my first tub of protabelise EM by a company called Cybergenics. It was supposed to be designed specifically for a mesomorph...yeh right! It cost over £20= and I hoped I would only need to take for a year or so to get to 16 stone or so and then I could stop spending out LOL LOL

I am constantly on the go as well guys, it just takes a little thinking to get around this problem. Where there is a wiil, there's a way!!! If food is generally accepted as better than powder, then work out some way to beat the problem!!

You all have read my daynas smoothie post?

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2001

Well it is just as quick to drink as whey and DOES taste nice if made correctly!

I also make a drink made of 6 eggs, whisked then microwaved for 20-30 seconds and mixed with a little whey, water and sweetener. This is just as quick to drink.

I still maintain that most people can eat at least every 3 hours with a tablespoon of whey in between to top the amino pool if they really want to. Is it that most people are lazy in this day and age, not taking the time to prepare their meals the night before and put them in tupperware's LOL?

If the newbies here could get 150g from whole food ( which isnt hard IMO ), then 50g PWO from whey or the like, then they are eating pretty much what they need!! If they then want extra Kcals from a conveinient source, then drink some maltodextrine with squash for taste. Whey IMO is still overpriced because even though gram for gram, its cheaper than food, it still doesnt bennefit us in growth as well as food. If it doesnt make us grow as well as food then we are wasting our money! If it doesnt make us grow as well as food, and we still use it, then we are cheating ourselves!

I can understand it when a 22stone lump (and I know a few who do this) is eating 2 turkey breasts with 100g rice and 2 cans of tuna mixed in every 3 hours. These guys need to use whey etc cos they cant eat any more! Can the rest of us really say that we cant physically eat more, or again is it stubborn or laziness.

I am in no way saying that everyone is lazy, or arnt serious about nutrition, instead I'm asking people to really think if they can push themselves that little bit more, to get the most from real food because at the end of the day, its them that benefits.

Ok rant over, my last comment is that suups are supps, thats why they are called supps!! Still following me?..Good. They should never be used to replace a meal which is what I see all the time in diets. If people must use them then IMO whole food every 3 hours with 15-20g of whey sneaked in between may help top up aminos.

So one last thought for you all to ponder upon. If you were on a desert island for bodybuilders only, and were offerd 100kg of steak, or 100kg of whey, which would you choose to consume? I know whay I would choose for sure!

winger

I totally agree with eating whole foods over the supps. Lets check out the fast foods while we are at it. You can down quite a few calories in a short period of time. But lets see how fast you can eat a big steak and bunch of broccoli. Not very fast. Grab some chips (empty calories) or eat an apple. You should see the kids in America now days. I just went to my daughters graduation and most of the kids look flabby or fat and out of shape.
Slam down a protein shake and how long is that supposed to last in your system..........not long. Eat a steak or a chicken breast, or turkey breast, that stuff sticks to the bones for a while. That is why the say post work out. I find it so funny that man is trying to make somthing that God has perfected and make it better. :confused:

Jimmy

winger, bumping your last

Musclehed

I agree with the mentioned above that as a general rule whole, real, natural, hell even organic if you can afford it is better over protein supps.

HOWEVER.... I do believe PWO a protein shake is benificial. From my personal experience (which is admittidly low due to me being a wee nipper) slamming down a shake (Hydrolysed whey, malto, dextrose, glutamine and even some BCAA's if im feeling riskey) 1/2 during my w/o and 1/2 straight after helps no end with my recovery.

I have read many studies and can cite them if anyone interested which make interesting reading on this subject. If people worried about the extra cost this one shake after every w/o (4 shakes a week) a 5lb tub would last months, you can get malto and dextrose dirty cheap from home-brew shops.

I read so often on boards people discouraging newbies from PWO protein nutrition, 'wait till their more experienced', and I cannot see any logic to this. It benifits no matter what level of experience, when you first start some would argue thats when its most important, when you grow the most.

Hackskii try eating a apple 30 mins before your w/o, works great with a ECA too, gives me muchos energy.

Also agree with the fast food point, with the exception of being in town, needing to eat, wondering into burger king, 2 whopers toss the buns away, no fries. And you have a low carb, high protein, high fat atkin/keto friendly meal (only to be used in emergency situations). Also enjoying the grilled chicken mcdonalds salads of late.

To conclude completly agree with Jimmy protein shakes PWO and when you cannot face eating your 6th meal of food or your on the move.