Muscle soreness and lifting effectiveness - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Ramair57 · 09-06-2004, 05:21 AM

I have been wondering about this for a bit. I have been lifting for like 7 years, so Ive gotten to know my body pretty well. Am I correct in assuming that as long as you make your muscle sore (feels "worked out" next day or two) it was sufficiently stimulated? The reason I ask is that I usually do 6 sets per body part; however, if I am doing a new exercise, just hitting the muscle differently gives me a great workout in only 3 or 4 sets. As long as I can feel somewhat sore over the next few days, that was adequate stimulation, correct? I mean, is there any reason to do the extra 2 or 3 sets? Alternatively, when I am no longer sore the day after my workout, I usually change things up and than the soreness comes back. To sum it up, Im wondering if you can gauge a little soreness as adequate stimulation to the msucle, even if that may not be many sets at all?

GoldenArrow · 09-06-2004, 06:59 AM

No, soreness has nothing to do with it. In fact it can be detrimental if it lasts until your next planned workout.

Ramair57 · 09-06-2004, 04:35 PM

I dont mean like sore to the point of pain, I mean the good sore where you know you worked the muscle the day before. I was under the impression that if I felt that the next day, my muscle was stimulated to grow, and if I didnt, my muscle had adapted to the regimen and it was time to change up a bit. Am I right?

**hackskii** · 09-06-2004, 05:31 PM

That is lactic acid buildup in the muscle.
That is a byproduct from a anaerobicly used muscle. This is where you use more oxygen than you are taking in.
This is nice to feel sore to let you know that you are using the muscles but I don’t think this is good and this can have a catabolic effect.
Creatine will help some with this.

Ramair57 · 10-06-2004, 02:29 AM

so the next day or two after you lift you shouldnt be sore at all? If this is the case for me Id always try to change things up assuming my muscles grew accuatomed to my workout. I dont mean extreme pain, I mean a good soreness. Is this what Im supposed to be feeling? And am I right in my thinking that you should nevr, never lift with a muscle that is still a bit sore from the previous workout (meaning it hasnt fully recovered)?

**hackskii** · 10-06-2004, 02:54 AM

Well, being a little sore would be ok as the muscles are being used in a way that they are not used to.
But if you cant bend your arms or legs for like 5 days then you are way overdoing it.
Lactic acid can be removed from the muscle by stretching and breathing or working the muscle out and breathing.

Lifting with sore muscles? If your chest is really sore then I would just either stretch it out or use really light weights to remove the lactic acid.

What is lactic acid good for? Nicked from the net

First of all, the accumulation of lactic acid during exercise can interfere with muscle contraction, nerve conduction and energy production, leading to acute fatigue. That’s one reason you tire during a training session. Yet lactic acid isn’t just a useless byproduct of energy metabolism — it is an important energy source.

The glucose paradox hypothesis suggests that when you ingest dietary carbohydrate, instead of it entering the liver and being converted to glycogen, it may actually bypass the liver, enter the circulatory system and be converted to lactic acid (in tissues such as skeletal muscle). Consequently, the lactate produced returns to the circulatory system and is converted into glycogen in the liver. Or alternatively, lactate can enter the general circulation where other tissues such as the heart, liver and kidneys can use it as fuel.

Why this backward path for liver glycogen formation? Lactate is removed much more rapidly from the circulatory system than glucose, which expedites the disposal of dietary carbohydrate without a tremendous insulin surge and stimulation of fat storage.

Lactic acid can also be used as an important fuel or as a source for glucose and glycogen synthesis. When you exercise intensely, for instance, lactic acid produced in your fast-twitch fibers can actually go to an adjacent slow-twitch fiber, which can then use it as fuel.

Approximately 75% of the lactic acid made during exercise is used as fuel. The remaining 25% is converted to glucose in the kidney and liver. The removal of accumulated lactic acid helps avert excessively high levels, and the conversion of lactate into glucose helps maintain sufficient levels of blood glucose, which is important during prolonged exercise.

But that isn’t all lactic acid can do. Did you know that when you work your legs, for example, your inactive muscles (such as your biceps) can release lactic acid from their glycogen stores? This lactic acid travels to the liver via the bloodstream, where it’s converted to glucose. This glucose is shuttled back via the blood to the previously active muscles and serves as a substrate for glycogen resynthesis. So even your inactive muscles play a role in muscle recovery.

Since lactic acid is half the size of glucose, it more easily crosses cell membranes. Unlike glucose, which requires insulin for its transport across the cell membrane, lactic acid needs no hormonal support and crosses the membrane via facilitated transport. Also, muscles can release large quantities of lactic acid into the general circulation, where it can serve as a potential fuel source and precursor for gluconeogenesis.

winger · 10-06-2004, 03:16 AM

I can only give advice from my own personal experiance. I train once a week each bodypart. 6 to 8 sets per bodypart. Stay between 8-10 reps. I like to train heavy. Eat 5 to 6 meals a day. If you arent getting stronger then you need more rest or you are overtraining.

Oh yea stick to compound movements.

09-06-2004, 05:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ramair57 Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 37	Muscle soreness and lifting effectiveness I have been wondering about this for a bit. I have been lifting for like 7 years, so Ive gotten to know my body pretty well. Am I correct in assuming that as long as you make your muscle sore (feels "worked out" next day or two) it was sufficiently stimulated? The reason I ask is that I usually do 6 sets per body part; however, if I am doing a new exercise, just hitting the muscle differently gives me a great workout in only 3 or 4 sets. As long as I can feel somewhat sore over the next few days, that was adequate stimulation, correct? I mean, is there any reason to do the extra 2 or 3 sets? Alternatively, when I am no longer sore the day after my workout, I usually change things up and than the soreness comes back. To sum it up, Im wondering if you can gauge a little soreness as adequate stimulation to the msucle, even if that may not be many sets at all?

09-06-2004, 05:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,049	That is lactic acid buildup in the muscle. That is a byproduct from a anaerobicly used muscle. This is where you use more oxygen than you are taking in. This is nice to feel sore to let you know that you are using the muscles but I don’t think this is good and this can have a catabolic effect. Creatine will help some with this. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 10-06-2004 at 02:41 AM.

10-06-2004, 02:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,049	Well, being a little sore would be ok as the muscles are being used in a way that they are not used to. But if you cant bend your arms or legs for like 5 days then you are way overdoing it. Lactic acid can be removed from the muscle by stretching and breathing or working the muscle out and breathing. Lifting with sore muscles? If your chest is really sore then I would just either stretch it out or use really light weights to remove the lactic acid. What is lactic acid good for? Nicked from the net First of all, the accumulation of lactic acid during exercise can interfere with muscle contraction, nerve conduction and energy production, leading to acute fatigue. That’s one reason you tire during a training session. Yet lactic acid isn’t just a useless byproduct of energy metabolism — it is an important energy source. The glucose paradox hypothesis suggests that when you ingest dietary carbohydrate, instead of it entering the liver and being converted to glycogen, it may actually bypass the liver, enter the circulatory system and be converted to lactic acid (in tissues such as skeletal muscle). Consequently, the lactate produced returns to the circulatory system and is converted into glycogen in the liver. Or alternatively, lactate can enter the general circulation where other tissues such as the heart, liver and kidneys can use it as fuel. Why this backward path for liver glycogen formation? Lactate is removed much more rapidly from the circulatory system than glucose, which expedites the disposal of dietary carbohydrate without a tremendous insulin surge and stimulation of fat storage. Lactic acid can also be used as an important fuel or as a source for glucose and glycogen synthesis. When you exercise intensely, for instance, lactic acid produced in your fast-twitch fibers can actually go to an adjacent slow-twitch fiber, which can then use it as fuel. Approximately 75% of the lactic acid made during exercise is used as fuel. The remaining 25% is converted to glucose in the kidney and liver. The removal of accumulated lactic acid helps avert excessively high levels, and the conversion of lactate into glucose helps maintain sufficient levels of blood glucose, which is important during prolonged exercise. But that isn’t all lactic acid can do. Did you know that when you work your legs, for example, your inactive muscles (such as your biceps) can release lactic acid from their glycogen stores? This lactic acid travels to the liver via the bloodstream, where it’s converted to glucose. This glucose is shuttled back via the blood to the previously active muscles and serves as a substrate for glycogen resynthesis. So even your inactive muscles play a role in muscle recovery. Since lactic acid is half the size of glucose, it more easily crosses cell membranes. Unlike glucose, which requires insulin for its transport across the cell membrane, lactic acid needs no hormonal support and crosses the membrane via facilitated transport. Also, muscles can release large quantities of lactic acid into the general circulation, where it can serve as a potential fuel source and precursor for gluconeogenesis. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-06-2004, 03:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,260 Blog Entries: 1	I can only give advice from my own personal experiance. I train once a week each bodypart. 6 to 8 sets per bodypart. Stay between 8-10 reps. I like to train heavy. Eat 5 to 6 meals a day. If you arent getting stronger then you need more rest or you are overtraining. Oh yea stick to compound movements. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-06-2004, 06:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
GoldenArrow Gym Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London Posts: 303	No, soreness has nothing to do with it. In fact it can be detrimental if it lasts until your next planned workout.

09-06-2004, 04:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ramair57 Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 37	I dont mean like sore to the point of pain, I mean the good sore where you know you worked the muscle the day before. I was under the impression that if I felt that the next day, my muscle was stimulated to grow, and if I didnt, my muscle had adapted to the regimen and it was time to change up a bit. Am I right?

10-06-2004, 02:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ramair57 Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 37	so the next day or two after you lift you shouldnt be sore at all? If this is the case for me Id always try to change things up assuming my muscles grew accuatomed to my workout. I dont mean extreme pain, I mean a good soreness. Is this what Im supposed to be feeling? And am I right in my thinking that you should nevr, never lift with a muscle that is still a bit sore from the previous workout (meaning it hasnt fully recovered)?