Rowlf

Couple of squat questions...

Firstly, I'm getting nervous. I've got no idea what my 1RM squat is because I've got no spotter(s), but I'm comfortably repping in the 120kg league (3x10 after warmups). This might not be big league, but I am starting to wonder if I'm not slightly endangering myself and other gym users, as I'm now working at a weight where if I lose balance, the bar's going to the floor whether I like it or not, and it's a smallish room, so might take out some other chaps at the same time. I also know it's slowing my development, because I know I can rep heavier, but won't because of the lack of spotter and my nervousness.

Also, I'm noticing a problem which I think must be form related. I'm getting pain in the front of the shoulder joint after squatting. It's exactly the same pain I got from flat benching, which I discarded after reading some of ninepacks posts and changed to incline. Discomfort stopped with that, which is why I'm wondering if this is form related?

Is there a better way of squatting for me that will allow me to push harder without a spotter and avoid the shoulder pain? I've had a look at front squats, and might give this a go...or would it be better to go lighter and slow the movement right down to hammer the muscles? Target at the moment is a bit of mass, so all advice gratefully appreciated....

Rowlf

Sorry, also forgot to say, stopped using the smith machine and swapped to free squats because the smith was killing my lower back - though if there was a form problem there that I can rectify then this might be the perfect solution....

squat_this

Are your goals bodybuilding or powerlifting? I'm guessin it's bodybuilding otherwise talk of discarding squats would be blasphemous. I also train on my own so know where you are coming from, however I don't know my 1rep max cos I dont give a $hit what it is! I do not do traditional squats anymore because I found front squats hit the quads better without bringing in hips/glutes/back etc. Traditional and front squats can also be done on the smith machine if you have access to one. Jay Cutler only squats using the smith so as to make the legs do the work without help from his back.

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squat_this

If your back was hurting using the Smith to squat I would say you had your feet too far back and you were probably performing more of a good-morning than a squat. I keep my feet quite far in front of me when Smith squatting and go ATG almost making it a hack squat...might as well make use of the fact you cant topple over backwards!

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Ellis

i woudn't recomend the smith machine anytime over the squat.
by using a smith machineand keeping your feet well forward of you hips you would reduce the forward lean of your shins, which may appear fine but because of the reaction force arrising from your feet pushing forward on the floor there will be added stress on the knees.
Also with keeping your feet forward you will put your back in a comprimising positions due to your hips being in front of the bar and if you keep your feet back under the bar it excessively increases knee flexion and stress of your thighs.

I prosume your goal is for bodybulding rather than powerlifting, if its for bodybuilding then you dont need to be squating 1 rep maxes simple as that. Some bodybuilders like Jay cutler squat on a smith machine but for there size and strength never go very heavy or use much weight.

Regarding the shoulder pain this could be as simple as having tight front delts and lack of flexibilty and so puts strain on your front delt when you are holding the bar in position. If you hold your hands in close to your body try puting them out near the plates but still holding the bar.

The pain can also come from bar positioning, if you hold it on your rear delts quite low like myself and many other powerlifters do its often that the bar rests across nerves in your upper back and this can cause shoulder pain and bicep tendonitis as the nerves are all linked and run from rear delts into front delt down biceps and into forearms.

If you do want to go heavy in squats or any time you are squating really you should squat either with spotters or if you dont have any you should simply squat in a power rack and set the pins just below your squat depth so the pins can catch the bar if you fail to come up from the squat or if you fall or stuble.

Rowlf

Sorry, should have said...it is for BBing!

Ellis - I'd love to squat in a power rack, but the gym I go to doesn't have one. I think that would probably address that big worry, but at the moment at least it's not to be. One day I may have to change gyms, but I'm happy where I am at the moment, and it's so local it's not true. As far as the pain goes, it feels more like it's under the front delt, almost on the joint if that makes any sense? As for the positioning of the hands, they're as far out as they can go on what I think is a 6' bar, though it might be a 7' I'd have to check.

What do others feel about the smith for squatting? In defence of the smith, I use it for standing calf raises, and it's giving me princely results (I can calf raise on the smith for reps more than I can squat free standing, but I think that's the security the smith's giving me)

Squat_this, I was under the impression that one of the points of squatting for mass was that it brought in lots of the musculature as well as the quads? I don't really care about the 1RM thing either, it is nice to chart progress though. That said, there's still weight going on the bar every week, so there's progress right there. How did you find the transition to front squats? Does it feel like you have more control of the weight?

Thanks for the input here guys

squat_this

You are correct that squatting will give overall muscle growth. Front squats will still do this...and you won't get a big bum! In terms of the transition, the weight you will be lifting is obviously less. Technique can be practiced on the smith for a couple of weeks. Make sure you get the bar resting high up touching your traps, not on the front delt otherwise it will slide after a couple of reps.

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squat_this

My hips stay directly beneath the bar but my feet are roughly 1.5ft in front of me so that if I was to lock my legs they would not be 90 degrees to the floor. When I squat down my hips stay below the bar, but I can get low to the point where my hams almost touch my calves. IMO this is basically a hack squat just without the angle a HS machine would give you.

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Rowlf

thanks squat. might have a play around over the next few weeks and see what happens, I can always change back if it causes more difficulties than it solves...

vikzter

i use the squat machine, although it has slight disadvantages its alot safer plus your working out what you want to work on. im not big but went from about 75kg upto 150kg within a month without feeling my necks been karate choped with an cast iron glove.

Slamdog

even though i'm only a junior compared to most guys on here I hated the smith machine squats.

At my gym there is a dedicated squat rack so i don't need a spotter. I just set the safety bars to the lowest point of my squat and i know when im down far enough as the bar touches the pins. If it doesn't touch, it ain't a full squat!

I'm also not fussed about getting a big bum... my goal is fat loss so the more muscles I use the more i burn fat (in theory!) If my muscles grow as well then that is a great thing...

paulo

i agree and do same-squat to pins in power rack set just below point where my upper thighs are parallel, my glutes have got bigger with the squatting but big legs big strong glutes i feel look ok, also hip size has gotten bigger, i prefer the free weight movement-havent tried front squats-after 20 yrs doing normal squats it would feel weird,each to their own whatever works for the individual i suppose

rokurota

If you can manage 3x10@120K your 1rm should be 175/180K, roughly.
How to make it more intense whilst safer? Front squat mate!

Rowlf

Oooh. I did 1x20 spotted at 130kg yesterday. Wow. Ouch.