squatting - best form and rep range for growth? - Page 2 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

lukey · 24-02-2007, 09:55 AM

Who thinks nine pack looks like sting in that photo, absolute spit, apart from the body that is!!

SportDr · 24-02-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukey

Who thinks nine pack looks like sting in that photo, absolute spit, apart from the body that is!!

LMAO! Your right mate, although I never saw Sting gurning lol Perhaps its a tantric thing???? :love:

Good physique 9Pack much like I would hope for one day with enough dedication and hopefully some help from the likes of yourself :p Love those vastus lateralis!!! (outer quads for the noobs)

SD

pookie69 · 24-02-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportDr

Added to that, ATTG squats bring more glute into play so continue if you want a butt like J Lo.

This ATG vs Parallel is seriously doing my head in. I only ever used to go to parallel, but after reading stuff on these boards I started going below parallel... now... I don't know what I'm supposed to do :(

Why can't guys all just agree?!

Maybe someone should start a poll on this? ATM, the camps seem evenly split.

Nine Pack · 24-02-2007, 12:04 PM

The good thing about this board id that you see all peoples views & can make an informed decision based on who you think makes the most sense i.e Sport dr & me :p

Anyway, Sting?! Jeez, now I'm depressed

chrisj22 · 24-02-2007, 12:25 PM

Sting!? LOL. You do a bit actually. Mate, my mum fancies the ass of him...and I think a lot of women do (mid 40's)...

steveg · 24-02-2007, 12:31 PM

personally im with ninepack on this one. I have trained both ways in the past, but found i had more knee injury problems with ATG than squatting parrallel. They both worked for me in respect to quad developement but found ATG working glutes too much also, giving me a big ass (the only muscle i dont want massive on stage) so i reverted back to parrallel.

Depending on what your objectives are, squat accordingly and stick to that.

SCJP · 24-02-2007, 01:22 PM

My knees started aching last year, so I in December I started doing leg presses & lunges in lieu of squats. I now experience no pain at all in my knees.

I'm never going to be 'big', so why risk screwing up my knees?

SportDr · 24-02-2007, 02:45 PM

Put it this way, every tiem you sit down and stand up again you perform a parralel squat, do your knees suffer as a result? No! How often in your day, unless you use a muslim toilet, do you squat A2G? personally never.

The arguement against parralel squats is that the acl and pcl are not supporting the joint at this point as they are lax. Maybe but with good muscle control you dont need an acl/pcl as demonstarted by many a footballer.

Whatever you decide to do, do it correctly and with good form.

SD

**big** · 24-02-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportDr

Put it this way, every tiem you sit down and stand up again you perform a parralel squat, do your knees suffer as a result? No! How often in your day, unless you use a muslim toilet, do you squat A2G? personally never.

How often in your day do you do a chin-up or a bench press, other than in the gym? Just because you don't do an ATG squat during the day, it doesn't mean it's a bad movement.

If you do want that argument though, take a look at a toddler. Watch them bend down to pick something up - you will find that they do an ATG squat.

I do strongly agree with your last statement however, and sums up pretty much everything with regards to exercise selection and range-of-movement: "Whatever you decide to do, do it correctly and with good form."

Nine Pack · 24-02-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisj22

Sting!? LOL. You do a bit actually. Mate, my mum fancies the ass of him...and I think a lot of women do (mid 40's)...

Oh well, that explains a lot. My wife has eleven years on me, but looks ten years younger. Not that I'm bitter or anything.................

Anyway, I think we've all learned a thing or two here, and more importantly that I'm always right & won't be argued with! :rolleye11

SportDr · 25-02-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

How often in your day do you do a chin-up or a bench press, other than in the gym? Just because you don't do an ATG squat during the day, it doesn't mean it's a bad movement.

Thats not why its bad movement Big, i explained earlier my reasons for that, increasing sheer forces etc.

No the statement above is why parallel squats are a GOOD movement, you see the main arguement for A2G is often that parallel are bad for you for the reasons I gave above ACL/PCL laxity.

Interestingly though the two exercises you gave as examples can be bad for you, chins create an angle at the elbow often more than 90 degrees which can cause an unnatural loading across that joint and Bench press is a known rotator cuff ruiner because people bench too low too soon, Primal movements are generally safer and more natural with the exception being A2G weighted squats

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

If you do want that argument though, take a look at a toddler. Watch them bend down to pick something up - you will find that they do an ATG squat.

To support your arguement, we also sit in an A2G squat in the womb, the difference? neither you or I are a foetus or a toddler, I am sure you don't need explanation of the vast biomechanical and physical differences there or the fact that we arent talking bodyweight squats we are talking loaded.

SD

andye · 05-03-2007, 03:59 PM

i have bad knees and because of this i avoid squatting. but only because i cant go all the way down so i thought it was pointless.

after this thread im starting to think i may have been going down far enough after all.

im lifting the full stack on the leg press so i had no where to go.

squats next week!

mrmasive · 06-03-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportDr

Massive if growth is your only concern then a fuller range of movement may optimise that, however, it will be at the expense of safety.

With increasing knee angle the shearing forces on the knee joint increase, these forces are measured in bodyweights and I think at 'ass to the grass' you have something like 10 times your bodyweight moving ACROSS your knee joint instead of through it. This poses a massive risk to the PT as 9pack said and the ACL/PCL. Rupture one of these and you wont squat again for around 2 years.

Added to that, ATTG squats bring more glute into play so continue if you want a butt like J Lo.

Truewarrior, if your Chiro said ATTG squats are better for your knee, I seriously think you should question his qualifications. It is well known in Physiotherapy and Biomechanics that the stress increases on the knee joint considerably, damage may not always be obvious right away but may be cumulative. I work in Orthopaedics, I see elderly men and women crippled by arthritus every day, it is a painful and miserable life, why take the risk?

SD

Sound advice

Keyser Soze · 08-03-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pookie69

This ATG vs Parallel is seriously doing my head in. I only ever used to go to parallel, but after reading stuff on these boards I started going below parallel... now... I don't know what I'm supposed to do :(

Why can't guys all just agree?!

Maybe someone should start a poll on this? ATM, the camps seem evenly split.

Most fundamental principles in training will work for ALMOST all people - heavy compounds, large quantities of protein a large no. of times per day, make sure each bodypart is hit every week etc. But the rest is pretty individual, and this "ATG vs Parallel" debate is one of them.

Breaks down to this; more ROM is better than less, all other things being equal (which they're not, and I'll clarify what/why). And I do NOT think it's literally ATG; you'd keel over backwards unless you're a hindu yoga master. You rest on your haunches at lowest level. If you find your knees are not complaining, I would continue with ATG and periodically try some heavier partials (to parallel). I see this partial stuff a lot with the upper body work of other guys in my gym, many has been the time I've been tempted to go over and say, "Hey, you need to go full range", but half range at 80Kg is a different ball game to full at 40Kg, apparently it recruits a slightly different set of minor muscles. I might try it myself.

If it's your aim to build SIZE, then ROM is the only way to go. For strength, there is something of an argument for partials; when you fail, you sometimes end up doing partials anyway, if you see the connection. Again, both camps, BB'ers and Powerlifters, can benefit from shocking their systems with the practices of the other. Don't hesitate to mix your routine up every so often; your body will thank you for it with extra mass/strength.

If you find your knees ARE complaining, do ONLY partials/parallels.

Cheers,

Keyser.

DB · 08-03-2007, 02:20 PM

ok how the f**k do u put up with all the weight across your delts when doing a front squat?

24-02-2007, 09:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
lukey Gym Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North East UK Posts: 124	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? Who thinks nine pack looks like sting in that photo, absolute spit, apart from the body that is!!

24-02-2007, 12:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,718	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? The good thing about this board id that you see all peoples views & can make an informed decision based on who you think makes the most sense i.e Sport dr & me :p Anyway, Sting?! Jeez, now I'm depressed __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage.

24-02-2007, 12:31 PM	#21 (permalink)
steveg 100% irish beef Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: n.ireland Posts: 198	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? personally im with ninepack on this one. I have trained both ways in the past, but found i had more knee injury problems with ATG than squatting parrallel. They both worked for me in respect to quad developement but found ATG working glutes too much also, giving me a big ass (the only muscle i dont want massive on stage) so i reverted back to parrallel. Depending on what your objectives are, squat accordingly and stick to that.

24-02-2007, 01:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
SCJP Looking Freaky Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SW Herts Posts: 971	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? My knees started aching last year, so I in December I started doing leg presses & lunges in lieu of squats. I now experience no pain at all in my knees. I'm never going to be 'big', so why risk screwing up my knees?

24-02-2007, 02:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
SportDr Getting HUGE! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK Posts: 2,666	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? Put it this way, every tiem you sit down and stand up again you perform a parralel squat, do your knees suffer as a result? No! How often in your day, unless you use a muslim toilet, do you squat A2G? personally never. The arguement against parralel squats is that the acl and pcl are not supporting the joint at this point as they are lax. Maybe but with good muscle control you dont need an acl/pcl as demonstarted by many a footballer. Whatever you decide to do, do it correctly and with good form. SD __________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819

05-03-2007, 03:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
andye 15 stone 10lb Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: hartlepool, north east england Posts: 657	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? i have bad knees and because of this i avoid squatting. but only because i cant go all the way down so i thought it was pointless. after this thread im starting to think i may have been going down far enough after all. im lifting the full stack on the leg press so i had no where to go. squats next week!

08-03-2007, 02:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
DB UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SW London Posts: 11,430	Re: squatting - best form and rep range for growth? ok how the f*k do u put up with all the weight across your delts when doing a front squat? __________________ DB To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. often imitated never duplicated To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. DB sleeps with a night light. Not because DB is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of DB. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.