Building Flies - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Jimmy_Cricket · 08-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Yo...guy down at my gym told me that when bulking never do shaping excercises eg flies...However, one of my mates told me that heavy flies are muscle building flies....I usually do up to 30kg incline flies strict...So basically - should i do flies when i'm bulking? Also, he told me to never cut and keep bulking untill i'm happy with my size and then cut.....Thing is, he's a big tub of ****e!!...no neck, big meat heed sort of crator - hes obviously never got round to cutting!!!...I don't want to look like that, i want a body like the maximuscle models lol!!!! O ye, my plan is also to bulk until september when i go back to uni, then i'm gonna cut al the way through to summer...That way i'll have plenty of time to get ripped unlike when i usually leave it until a month before my holidays!!...I do Jujitsu, swimming, bodypump and i'm gonna do the marine commandos training plan to get you ready for the preliminary trial - all that should get me ripped huh? Good or bad plan??

**Pscarb** · 09-08-2006, 08:26 AM

i occasonally use flies in my shest session but to use heavy weight is stupid due to the nature of the movement and the fact that using heavy weights can cause real damamge to the shoulder girdle...

on to this bulk until your happy then cut theory it has got basis but to be fair guys generally use it as an excuse to eat crap...

Magic Torch · 09-08-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

i occasonally use flies in my shest session but to use heavy weight is stupid due to the nature of the movement and the fact that using heavy weights can cause real damamge to the shoulder girdle...

on to this bulk until your happy then cut theory it has got basis but to be fair guys generally use it as an excuse to eat crap...

I agree 30kg is way to heavy, unless you are the size of Ronnie or Jay

I'm fairly sure that your form cant be 100% as well....I can push about 120 on the bench and I only really fly with about 16-18kg max and keep good form.

Agree with Paul too about the bulking thing, the dude is prob just an old school guy who wants to justify his Mc Donalds addiction

There is a good thread in the general section about weight while bulking i'll see if I can dig it out.......

Magic Torch · 09-08-2006, 08:56 AM

Here you are mate:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-c...nt-growin.html

**Robsta** · 09-08-2006, 09:20 AM

I personally like flies and go up to 40 kg, but like paul says, if not done right it is an excercise that can cause injuries ever so easy, and I have injured my shoulder in the past doing this movement...

Ironman · 09-08-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiedsmith1981

I agree 30kg is way to heavy, unless you are the size of Ronnie or Jay

I'm fairly sure that your form cant be 100% as well....I can push about 120 on the bench and I only really fly with about 16-18kg max and keep good form.

I disagree with this,

I do 30k sometimes 40k flies with no problems and im no Ronnie. 16k is far to light for me. As long as your forms good you do the wieght you can handle. This might be 18k, 30k or 60k.

Magic Torch · 09-08-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman

I disagree with this,

I do 30k sometimes 40k flies with no problems and im no Ronnie. 16k is far to light for me. As long as your forms good you do the wieght you can handle. This might be 18k, 30k or 60k.

Really? I used to get to about 28kg but then I it really stressed my shoulders when streching at the bottom of the movement then I used to cheat on the way back up and put more of a bend in my elbows.

And you'll always be a Ronnie in my eyes Iron :love:

Jimmy_Cricket · 09-08-2006, 10:14 AM

Cheers for the info guys....i feel my tech is good with flies although i use the tech keeping your elbows locked at 90 degrees- i know some people who keeps their arms straight with their elbows locked out the wholeway through or they bench the dumbells lol!!!!

Ironman · 09-08-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiedsmith1981

Really? I used to get to about 28kg but then I it really stressed my shoulders when streching at the bottom of the movement then I used to cheat on the way back up and put more of a bend in my elbows.

Its prob just the way I do them - cant explian how I do them but I put a bend in my elbow which makes it easier than keepin my arms straight - If my arms were straight I couldnt do as much wieght.

**Tinytom** · 09-08-2006, 10:22 AM

Elbows should not come below the shoulder line on flyes because it puts too much stress on the coricobracialis which is a tendon that runs across the shoulder and ties in with the chest, majority of shoulder/chest pain comes from inflammation of this. Massive stretching on flyes can leave you open to injury.

Personally I allow a slight stretch just below shoulder level but by that time the stress has already started to shift towards the shoulders and the tendons for the eccentric movement. Flyes are about constant tension on the muscle and if you over stretch you will increase the tension but the chest will not be the only primary muscle involed in the contraction.

I go up to 32kg on my flyes in off season.

Also - there are no Bulking and shaping exercises, only exercises that stimulate the muscles in different ways, Chest press for example recruits Chest, Delts and Triceps in the movement and is a compound movement. Compound movements encourage muscle growth by a cumulative effect on different muscle groups.

However the best CHEST builder would be flyes because thats the only exercise that stimulates only the chest (if you do it right). Weight is not as important as stimulus of the fibres and thats why bouncing the weight is not a good idea because the continuous tension is lost and so the stimulus to the muscle is reduced.

The only reason why people say bulk up and then cut is because they have no grasp of basic nutirtion and body chemistry, if anyone has seen my post on my lean mass off season diet they will see that you can gain size while keeping a good condition.

Bulking up in the conventional sense of the word is basically flawed becasue if you have more fat than muscle the ratio of insulin receptors shifts towards the fat cells i.e. if you are fat you will get fatter, if you are lean you can build more muscle because there are more insulin receptors on the muscle cells as opposed to fat cells.

Its more ego friendly to get fat because you feel bigger in clothes and the scales say you are 19 stone or whatever, however I'd rather be 14 stone and look 16 stone than be 16 stone of fatty blubber. Lean muscle will make you look bigger.

Captain Hero · 09-08-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman

Its prob just the way I do them - cant explian how I do them but I put a bend in my elbow which makes it easier than keepin my arms straight - If my arms were straight I couldnt do as much wieght.

I do the same, still feel a lot of the movement on the pecs though despite this.

Jimmy_Cricket · 09-08-2006, 10:26 AM

Thanks tinytom....think i'll print this page off, give it to the big fatty and tell him to stick it in his pipe and smoke it lol!!!!

Ironman · 09-08-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinytom

Elbows should not come below the shoulder line on flyes because it puts too much stress on the coricobracialis which is a tendon that runs across the shoulder and ties in with the chest, majority of shoulder/chest pain comes from inflammation of this. Massive stretching on flyes can leave you open to injury.

Personally I allow a slight stretch just below shoulder level but by that time the stress has already started to shift towards the shoulders and the tendons for the eccentric movement. Flyes are about constant tension on the muscle and if you over stretch you will increase the tension but the chest will not be the only primary muscle involed in the contraction.

I go up to 32kg on my flyes in off season.

Also - there are no Bulking and shaping exercises, only exercises that stimulate the muscles in different ways, Chest press for example recruits Chest, Delts and Triceps in the movement and is a compound movement. Compound movements encourage muscle growth by a cumulative effect on different muscle groups.

However the best CHEST builder would be flyes because thats the only exercise that stimulates only the chest (if you do it right). Weight is not as important as stimulus of the fibres and thats why bouncing the weight is not a good idea because the continuous tension is lost and so the stimulus to the muscle is reduced.

The only reason why people say bulk up and then cut is because they have no grasp of basic nutirtion and body chemistry, if anyone has seen my post on my lean mass off season diet they will see that you can gain size while keeping a good condition.

Bulking up in the conventional sense of the word is basically flawed becasue if you have more fat than muscle the ratio of insulin receptors shifts towards the fat cells i.e. if you are fat you will get fatter, if you are lean you can build more muscle because there are more insulin receptors on the muscle cells as opposed to fat cells.

Its more ego friendly to get fat because you feel bigger in clothes and the scales say you are 19 stone or whatever, however I'd rather be 14 stone and look 16 stone than be 16 stone of fatty blubber. Lean muscle will make you look bigger.

^^^^Excellent post dude.

Magic Torch · 09-08-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman

Its prob just the way I do them - cant explian how I do them but I put a bend in my elbow which makes it easier than keepin my arms straight - If my arms were straight I couldnt do as much wieght.

I think your right, like any movement you need to change things around until you feel the right 'pump' or contraction for yourself, i feel it the most with only a slight bend :lift:

Also another factor is I do them after 4 sets of flat and 4 sets of incline press's, cause I like to work on a tired chest for that move cause I put empysis (sorry i cant spell

) on the stretch.

Ironman · 09-08-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

I do the same, still feel a lot of the movement on the pecs though despite this.

I think its the best way to do them - with a slight bend in the elbow you take away the stress from the elbow and the shoulder and its pretty much all chest - you can feel this in the movement.

08-08-2006, 10:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jimmy_Cricket www.file4u.co.uk Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotchland Posts: 1,232	Building Flies Yo...guy down at my gym told me that when bulking never do shaping excercises eg flies...However, one of my mates told me that heavy flies are muscle building flies....I usually do up to 30kg incline flies strict...So basically - should i do flies when i'm bulking? Also, he told me to never cut and keep bulking untill i'm happy with my size and then cut.....Thing is, he's a big tub of ***e!!...no neck, big meat heed sort of crator - hes obviously never got round to cutting!!!...I don't want to look like that, i want a body like the maximuscle models lol!!!! O ye, my plan is also to bulk until september when i go back to uni, then i'm gonna cut al the way through to summer...That way i'll have plenty of time to get ripped unlike when i usually leave it until a month before my holidays!!...I do Jujitsu, swimming, bodypump and i'm gonna do the marine commandos training plan to get you ready for the preliminary trial - all that should get me ripped huh? Good or bad plan?? Last edited by Jimmy_Cricket; 08-08-2006 at 10:33 PM.*

09-08-2006, 08:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,188	i occasonally use flies in my shest session but to use heavy weight is stupid due to the nature of the movement and the fact that using heavy weights can cause real damamge to the shoulder girdle... on to this bulk until your happy then cut theory it has got basis but to be fair guys generally use it as an excuse to eat crap... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Admin at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Nutrition is your greatest anabolic agent everything else is just the icing on the cake

09-08-2006, 08:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Magic Torch UK-M Swimsuit model Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex Posts: 5,062 Blog Entries: 5	Here you are mate: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-c...nt-growin.html __________________ intentionally blank

09-08-2006, 09:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Robsta UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In The Shire Posts: 5,326	I personally like flies and go up to 40 kg, but like paul says, if not done right it is an excercise that can cause injuries ever so easy, and I have injured my shoulder in the past doing this movement... __________________ Robsta

09-08-2006, 10:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tinytom super-hypno-moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Babylon Posts: 5,655	Elbows should not come below the shoulder line on flyes because it puts too much stress on the coricobracialis which is a tendon that runs across the shoulder and ties in with the chest, majority of shoulder/chest pain comes from inflammation of this. Massive stretching on flyes can leave you open to injury. Personally I allow a slight stretch just below shoulder level but by that time the stress has already started to shift towards the shoulders and the tendons for the eccentric movement. Flyes are about constant tension on the muscle and if you over stretch you will increase the tension but the chest will not be the only primary muscle involed in the contraction. I go up to 32kg on my flyes in off season. Also - there are no Bulking and shaping exercises, only exercises that stimulate the muscles in different ways, Chest press for example recruits Chest, Delts and Triceps in the movement and is a compound movement. Compound movements encourage muscle growth by a cumulative effect on different muscle groups. However the best CHEST builder would be flyes because thats the only exercise that stimulates only the chest (if you do it right). Weight is not as important as stimulus of the fibres and thats why bouncing the weight is not a good idea because the continuous tension is lost and so the stimulus to the muscle is reduced. The only reason why people say bulk up and then cut is because they have no grasp of basic nutirtion and body chemistry, if anyone has seen my post on my lean mass off season diet they will see that you can gain size while keeping a good condition. Bulking up in the conventional sense of the word is basically flawed becasue if you have more fat than muscle the ratio of insulin receptors shifts towards the fat cells i.e. if you are fat you will get fatter, if you are lean you can build more muscle because there are more insulin receptors on the muscle cells as opposed to fat cells. Its more ego friendly to get fat because you feel bigger in clothes and the scales say you are 19 stone or whatever, however I'd rather be 14 stone and look 16 stone than be 16 stone of fatty blubber. Lean muscle will make you look bigger. __________________ We are what we do. Excellence is therefore a habit not a skill. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Code 'UKM 110' for an extra 5% discount To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Also mod at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Sponsored by Extreme Nutrition - Almost an unfair advantage

09-08-2006, 10:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jimmy_Cricket www.file4u.co.uk Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotchland Posts: 1,232	Cheers for the info guys....i feel my tech is good with flies although i use the tech keeping your elbows locked at 90 degrees- i know some people who keeps their arms straight with their elbows locked out the wholeway through or they bench the dumbells lol!!!!

09-08-2006, 10:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Jimmy_Cricket www.file4u.co.uk Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotchland Posts: 1,232	Thanks tinytom....think i'll print this page off, give it to the big fatty and tell him to stick it in his pipe and smoke it lol!!!! Last edited by Jimmy_Cricket; 09-08-2006 at 10:30 AM.