more advice needed - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

robin_3_16 · 08-02-2004, 10:25 PM

hey guys
right my back workout has been sorted for a few weeks, while on gear,
but now i am coming off soon and want to sort something out
i can still only do about 2 wide grip chinups, so if i do 3 sets i get 6 in total at the most
if i do a set of pull downbs to finish is this enough, too much? too little?
i am having trouble with this as i want to alternate between the 2
but its hard when i can do so little chin ups, because i feel i have to do them every week so that i will be able to do more eventually, it has been extra hard trying to do more chins while on cycle as i am gaining weight
so as i could do 2 before with me at 13 stone
i can do 2 now with me at 14 and a half stone
also the back is a big muscle group how many sets is acceptable for the back as to not overtrain it?
thanks guys!

Jock · 08-02-2004, 11:04 PM

Do not overcomplicate things bro....what you are striving for is maximum muscle hypertophy. 2 reps will not really achieve that.

I'm a big fan of Max-OT style training, I usually complete 1-2 warm-up sets of about 50% max and then 2 work sets. 1 of usually 6 reps then a second of 4 reps.......this style of training is very short and intense, but it has worked great for me. My workouts are very hard but also very short and I'm usually done in 45-50mins.

You can take these principles and add more work sets when you are on gear as overtraining is not really an issue.

Keep doing pull-ups but narrow your grip.....if you want to make things more difficult tie a 5kg weight to your belt and feel the burn.

The 4-6 rep range is a great way to achieve maximal hypertrophy, don't give up on wide-grip chins, just attempt them a little later on when your back is stronger and more well-developed.

Best of luck, Jock

robin_3_16 · 09-02-2004, 11:22 PM

thats a good idea, so what u r saying is leave them out for now, and just do heavy pulldowns etc and wait till my back is stronger and bigger then maybe try them again
so i don't need to do chin ups to get stronger at them and do more?
thanks mate

**hackskii** · 10-02-2004, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by robin_3_16
thats a good idea, so what u r saying is leave them out for now, and just do heavy pulldowns etc and wait till my back is stronger and bigger then maybe try them again
so i don't need to do chin ups to get stronger at them and do more?
thanks mate

Robin, If you want to do more chin ups then you will have to do chin ups. Do a warm-up set on pull downs and then do your 2 sets to failure of chin ups.
After that do a drop down set with the pulldowns or maybe 2 sets getting 8-12 reps.
Pullups/chin ups are a technique kindof thing.
This helped me:
First of all: you will not be able to do as many chin ups when you gain weight as for when you are light. So when you lose the water you "WILL" do more chin ups as you will be lighter.
Second: when you do your pull ups/chin ups, think of your elbo's pushing down and not you pulling your weight up. Think of the elbo's and not you pulling the body. This was taught to me by a old guy 20 years ago. You have to think in your mind not the pulling aspect of the lift but pushing your elbo's down.
This will make your mind think of using more back than your bicep's.
Sounds crazy but this did work for me.

Next, if you want to do pulldowns then do them. But do them every other week. Pullups are harder and if you want to do more of these (pullups/chinups) then you will just have to do them.
Think of the mechanics of this: First you have to use grip, then bicep, then upper back and actually abs to support your body. All around pullups/chinups do more than pulldowns. So do both but do the pulldowns after the chins.
Make sense?
Practice makes perfect I have heard. So If you want a big bench then do bench. If you want a big squat then do squats. Dont do leg press and extentions to get your squats up. Do the squats!

Summary: do the pullups and then do the pulldowns for the down sets.
Concentrate on your elbo's and not your back or arms and think that your elbo's are being pushed down. This will take your mind off of what you are doing and focus on the power of the lift.

Hope this helps

Cheers M8

T-man · 10-02-2004, 10:55 PM

I have started doing chins again the last few months and can see the extra width they have added already. I used to have one lat bigger than the other but the seam to have evened out.

I used to do chins with 20kg around my waist for 10 but now I only use my bodyweight but I am 20kg heavier now so it evens it out.

**hackskii** · 11-02-2004, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by T-man
I used to do chins with 20kg around my waist for 10 but now I only use my bodyweight but I am 20kg heavier now so it evens it out.

Impressive T-man

Not too many guys can do that!

Jock · 11-02-2004, 11:40 AM

Yeah nice one bro, I can do about 6 with a 5kg weight:(

robin_3_16 · 11-02-2004, 12:13 PM

i can do about 2 at my own bodyweight

**hackskii** · 11-02-2004, 01:42 PM

I can do 7 with 97.27 kg's

Jock · 11-02-2004, 03:10 PM

Just to clarify here which kind of chins are we talking about here? like this?:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...andChinup.html

powerU · 11-02-2004, 03:49 PM

so, for the widest lats, am i best doing underhand grip close chins as mentioned above or wide overhand grip pullups as i do at the moment??

BSF James · 11-02-2004, 03:54 PM

Jock,

the max-ot program is good isn't it? I'm doing this now for a while - mainly cos it recommends training 5 x a week (I'm making the most of training in my gym before I leave it!)

It makes a lot of sense. Progressive overload is the only consistent way to build muscle, especially for natural trainers.

**hackskii** · 11-02-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jock
Just to clarify here which kind of chins are we talking about here? like this?:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...andChinup.html

Those are girl pullups. No I do the wide overhand ones.

BSF James · 11-02-2004, 05:30 PM

'Girl pullups'!

- classic!

I always do them wide grip (although I dont do them often). Reverse grip makes it almost a bicep exercise.

Robin,

Dont feel bad that you can only do 2 reps - Lee Priest can hardly do any in his off season - he just 'hangs' there! I have one of his videos and he has a guy helping him do forced reps in it.

robin_3_16 · 11-02-2004, 06:54 PM

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../WtChinup.html
these are the ones we are talking about
i know i wish i had someone there to help because i think this is better then assissted machines i think they are a waste of time, IMO

08-02-2004, 10:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
robin_3_16 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: england Posts: 1,461	more advice needed hey guys right my back workout has been sorted for a few weeks, while on gear, but now i am coming off soon and want to sort something out i can still only do about 2 wide grip chinups, so if i do 3 sets i get 6 in total at the most if i do a set of pull downbs to finish is this enough, too much? too little? i am having trouble with this as i want to alternate between the 2 but its hard when i can do so little chin ups, because i feel i have to do them every week so that i will be able to do more eventually, it has been extra hard trying to do more chins while on cycle as i am gaining weight so as i could do 2 before with me at 13 stone i can do 2 now with me at 14 and a half stone also the back is a big muscle group how many sets is acceptable for the back as to not overtrain it? thanks guys! __________________ Robin

08-02-2004, 11:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,018	Do not overcomplicate things bro....what you are striving for is maximum muscle hypertophy. 2 reps will not really achieve that. I'm a big fan of Max-OT style training, I usually complete 1-2 warm-up sets of about 50% max and then 2 work sets. 1 of usually 6 reps then a second of 4 reps.......this style of training is very short and intense, but it has worked great for me. My workouts are very hard but also very short and I'm usually done in 45-50mins. You can take these principles and add more work sets when you are on gear as overtraining is not really an issue. Keep doing pull-ups but narrow your grip.....if you want to make things more difficult tie a 5kg weight to your belt and feel the burn. The 4-6 rep range is a great way to achieve maximal hypertrophy, don't give up on wide-grip chins, just attempt them a little later on when your back is stronger and more well-developed. Best of luck, Jock __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-02-2004, 11:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
robin_3_16 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: england Posts: 1,461	thats a good idea, so what u r saying is leave them out for now, and just do heavy pulldowns etc and wait till my back is stronger and bigger then maybe try them again so i don't need to do chin ups to get stronger at them and do more? thanks mate __________________ Robin

10-02-2004, 10:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
T-man Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: England Posts: 253	I have started doing chins again the last few months and can see the extra width they have added already. I used to have one lat bigger than the other but the seam to have evened out. I used to do chins with 20kg around my waist for 10 but now I only use my bodyweight but I am 20kg heavier now so it evens it out. __________________ You can't grow without pain!

11-02-2004, 11:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,018	Yeah nice one bro, I can do about 6 with a 5kg weight:( __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-02-2004, 12:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
robin_3_16 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: england Posts: 1,461	i can do about 2 at my own bodyweight __________________ Robin

11-02-2004, 01:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,517	I can do 7 with 97.27 kg's __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-02-2004, 03:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,018	Just to clarify here which kind of chins are we talking about here? like this?: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...andChinup.html __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-02-2004, 03:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,139	so, for the widest lats, am i best doing underhand grip close chins as mentioned above or wide overhand grip pullups as i do at the moment??

11-02-2004, 03:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
BSF James BodyShapers Fitness MD Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Telford Posts: 1,252	Jock, the max-ot program is good isn't it? I'm doing this now for a while - mainly cos it recommends training 5 x a week (I'm making the most of training in my gym before I leave it!) It makes a lot of sense. Progressive overload is the only consistent way to build muscle, especially for natural trainers. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -Now with FREE shipping available on all UK mainland orders! 5% off your first order - use discount code ukm6. The #1 choice for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. with rapid, reliable service. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - research backed sports nutrition.

11-02-2004, 05:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
BSF James BodyShapers Fitness MD Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Telford Posts: 1,252	'Girl pullups'! - classic! I always do them wide grip (although I dont do them often). Reverse grip makes it almost a bicep exercise. Robin, Dont feel bad that you can only do 2 reps - Lee Priest can hardly do any in his off season - he just 'hangs' there! I have one of his videos and he has a guy helping him do forced reps in it. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -Now with FREE shipping available on all UK mainland orders! 5% off your first order - use discount code ukm6. The #1 choice for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. with rapid, reliable service. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - research backed sports nutrition.

11-02-2004, 06:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
robin_3_16 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: england Posts: 1,461	http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../WtChinup.html these are the ones we are talking about i know i wish i had someone there to help because i think this is better then assissted machines i think they are a waste of time, IMO __________________ Robin