itraininthedark

i drank so much once i thought i was gonna die.. not a good fealing, this is what happens when you drink stella toped with two doubles of vodka.. not good

is it a very very bad idea to drink on cycle?

Harry

What's that in laymans terms please Macro, googled it but still none the wiser.

trickymicky69

2 paracetamols and a pint of water before bed does wonders for me

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Macro

basically people with this gene produce less aldehyde dehydrogenase, aldehydes are the toxic metabolites of alcohol. with Low levels of ALDH, which sesapure (sesamin/episesamin) will raise, the toxic metabolites are VERY slowly broken down which causes all kinds of issues including severe hangover.

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/127/5/376

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1283584

sesapure is probably more effective for people that dont have the aldh2 polymorphism, but it can help aldh2 sufferers.

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Greekgoddess

That sounds like me! I had tests and the doctor just said I was allergic to alcohol because of a genetic problem I inherited. I even had a Doctors certificate that I used to get very cheap car insurance with in the uk

With one mouthful of booze and a mixer I am red, incoherent and unable to focus my thoughts. Any more than that and I am well on the way to being legless.

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delts

I use Cynara artichoke when I know I'm gonna have a bit of a session, take 3 before you start drinking, another 3 after a your 1st few drinks, and a further 3 before bed. Works a treat for me, still feel tired and lethargic next morning, but other than that I generally feel good.

Macro

your reaction is likely psychosomatic, artichoke has been shown to have no impact on ethanol metabolism.

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pauly7582

does it not worry you that you've thought so long and hard about how to avoid the inevitable effects of alcohol.

drinking so much for so long only leads in one direction and thats down.

a hang over is a temporary thing so why over analyse it?

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Robsta

Temporary, huh, mine last a week or so.....

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Macro

some people get hungover from even a couple drinks (especially as you get older)

hangover may be temporary but the effects of aldehydes over time are not. Good and rapid aldehyde metabolism improves health (whether you are drinking or not).

also that temporary hangover may come at a time that costs you. So avoiding or minimizing hangover is generally just good common sense.

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Macro

btw- stop taking candid photos of macro and using them in your avatar. Eating is a private affair

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pauly7582

Why such focus on aldehydes and health mate? It's not possible to protect yourself against them by eating certain foods or doing this and that. More reason to simply drink less in the first place as opposed to searching furiously for a cure. Which there isnt. It's not possible to improve your ability to metabolise aldehydes. especially through 'hang over cures'.

Anyway, the link placed between aldehydes and major disease in minimal.

If you're looking to protect yourself against substances formed in the body that are bad for you then look into reactive oxygen species and the effect of anti oxidants.

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Macro

yes there is.

pparalpha agonists upregulate aldehyde dehydrogenase production.

Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2005 Nov;29(11 Suppl):116S-120S. Links

Sesamin ingestion regulates the transcription levels of hepatic metabolizing enzymes for alcohol and lipids in rats.

Kiso Y, Tsuruoka N, Kidokoro A, Matsumoto I, Abe K.
Suntory Institute for Health Care Science, Osaka, Japan. Yoshinobu_Kiso@suntory.co.jp
BACKGROUND: Sesamin, a major lignan in sesame seeds, has multiple functions such as stimulation effect of ethanol metabolism in mice and human, and prevention of ethanol-induced fatty liver in rats. However, the mechanism has not been clarified yet. METHODS: The changes of gene expression were investigated in rats given 250 mg/kg of sesamin (sesamin rats) or vehicle (control rats) for three days by using a DNA microarray analysis. At 4 hr after the final ingestion, the profiles of gene expression in rat livers were compared. RESULTS: The analysis showed that 38 transcripts were up-regulated with a significant change of more than two-fold and eight transcripts were down-regulated with a significant change to less than half in the livers of sesamin rats versus control rats. The gene expression levels of the early stage enzymes of beta-oxidation including long-chain acyl-CoA synthetase, very long-chain acyl-CoA synthetase and carnitine palmitoyltransferase were not changed, however, those of the late stage enzymes of beta-oxidation including trifunctional enzyme in mitochondria, and acyl-CoA oxidase, bifunctional enzyme and 3-ketoacyl-CoA thiolase in peroxisomes, were significantly increased by sesamin ingestion. Also, in sesamin rats, the gene expression of aldehyde dehydrogenase was increased about three-fold, whereas alcohol dehydrogenase, liver catalase and CYP2E1 were not changed. Changes in the gene expression of alcohol- and aldehyde-metabolizing enzymes observed in a DNA microarray were also confirmed by a real-time PCR method. CONCLUSIONS: These results suggested that sesamin ingestion regulated the transcription levels of hepatic metabolizing enzymes for alcohol and lipids.

: Toxicol Sci. 2008 Jan;101(1):51-64. Epub 2007 Nov 12. Links

Tissue distribution, ontogeny, and regulation of aldehyde dehydrogenase (Aldh) enzymes mRNA by prototypical microsomal enzyme inducers in mice.

Alnouti Y, Klaassen CD.
Kansas Life Sciences Innovation Center, University of Kansas Medical Center, Kansas City, Kansas 66160, USA.
Aldehyde dehydrogenases (Aldhs) are a group of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-dependent enzymes that catalyze the oxidation of a wide spectrum of aldehydes to carboxylic acids. Tissue distribution and developmental changes in the expression of the messenger RNA (mRNA) of 15 Aldh enzymes were quantified in male and female mice tissues using the branched DNA signal amplification assay. Furthermore, the regulation of the mRNA expression of Aldhs by 15 typical microsomal enzyme inducers (MEIs) was studied. Aldh1a1 mRNA expression was highest in ovary; 1a2 in testis; 1a3 in placenta; 1a7 in lung; 1b1 in small intestine; 2 in liver; 3a1 in stomach; 3a2 and 3b1 expression was ubiquitous; 4a1, 6a1, 7a1, and 8a1 in liver and kidney; 9a1 in liver, kidney, and small intestine; and 18a1 in ovary and small intestine. mRNAs of different Aldh enzymes were detected at lower levels in fetuses than adult mice and gradually increased after birth to reach adult levels between 15 and 45 days of age, when the gender difference began to appear. Aromatic hydrocarbon receptor (AhR) ligands induced the liver mRNA expression of Aldh1a7, 1b1, and 3a1, constitutive androstane receptor (CAR) activators induced Aldh1a1 and 1a7, whereas pregnane X receptor (PXR) ligands and NF-E2 related factor 2 (Nrf2) activators induced Aldh1a1, 1a7, and 1b1. Peroxisome proliferator activator receptor alpha (PPAR alpha) ligands induced the mRNA expression in liver of almost all Aldhs. The Aldh organ-specific distribution may be important in elucidating their role in metabolism, elimination, and organ-specific toxicity of xenobiotics. Finally, in contrast to other phase-I metabolic enzymes such as CYP450 enzymes, Aldh mRNA expression seems to be generally insensitive to typical microsomal inducers except PPAR alpha ligands.

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pauly7582

Lucky rodents.

Your search for the protector against aldehydes from to alcohol consumption isnt going to make much difference to your health mate.

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Macro

while that may be arguable, it will make a difference in hangover- which is what this thread is about.


though since you earlier mentioned antioxidents and ROS

J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Mar 12;51(6):1666-70. Links

Novel antioxidative metabolites in rat liver with ingested sesamin.

Nakai M, Harada M, Nakahara K, Akimoto K, Shibata H, Miki W, Kiso Y.
Institute for Health Care Science, Suntory Ltd., 1-1-1 Wakayamadai, Shimamoto-cho, Mishima-gun, Osaka 618-8503, Japan. Masaaki_Nakai@suntory.co.jp
Sesamin, a major lignan in sesame oil, is known to have many biological activities, especially protective effects against oxidative damage in the liver. As sesamin itself has no antioxidative properties in vitro, to elucidate the mechanism of its antioxidative effects, the reaction products of sesamin in rat liver homogenate were analyzed. The methylenedioxyphenyl moiety in the structure of sesamin was shown to be changed into a dihydrophenyl (catechol) moiety. The enzymatic reaction products in vitro were identified as (1R,2S,5R,6S)-6-(3,4-dihydroxyphenyl)-2-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-3,7-dioxabicyclo[3,3,0]octane and (1R,2S,5R,6S)-2,6-bis(3,4-dihydroxyphenyl)-3,7-dioxabicyclo[3,3,0]octane, which showed strong radical scavenging activities; the latter was a novel compound. The same metabolites were found as glucuronic acid and/or sulfic acid conjugates in substantial amounts in rat bile after oral administration of sesamin. It is suggested that sesamin is a prodrug and the metabolites containing the catechol moieties in their structures are responsible for the protective effects of sesamin against oxidative damage in the liver.

1: Neurosci Lett. 2004 Aug 26;367(1):10-3. Links

Protective effects of sesamin and sesamolin on murine BV-2 microglia cell line under hypoxia.

Hou RC, Wu CC, Yang CH, Jeng KC.
Jen-Teh Junior College of Medical and Nursing Management, Miaoli, Taiwan, ROC.
Sesamin and sesamolin were tested for their ability to protect BV-2 microglia from hypoxia-induced cell death. These antioxidants dose-dependently reduced hypoxia-induced lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release and dichlorofluorescein (DCF)-sensitive reactive oxygen species (ROS) production. Their effects on signaling pathway mitogen-activated protein kinases (MAPKs) and caspase-3 in hypoxia-induced cell death were further examined. Extracellular signal-regulated protein kinases (ERK1/2), c-jun NH(2)-terminal kinase (JNK), and p38 MAPKs were activated during hypoxia. The sesamin or sesamolin reduced caspase-3 and MAPK activation correlated well with diminished LDH release in BV-2 cells under hypoxia. Furthermore, they preserved superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase activities in BV-2 cells under hypoxia. Taken together, these results indicate that the mechanism of sesame antioxidants involves inhibition of MAPK pathways and apoptosis through scavenging of ROS in hypoxia-stressed BV-2 cells.

1: J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2008 Apr;54(2):117-23. Links

Dietary Tocotrienol Reduces UVB-Induced Skin Damage and Sesamin Enhances Tocotrienol Effects in Hairless Mice.

Yamada Y, Obayashi M,