Protein: How Much Do You Need - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

SportDr · 09-04-2007, 11:42 AM

Just how much Protein do you need? Its a question that comes up all the time and has been answered elsewhere, but begs revisiting. The reason for this is that requirements get confused in the haze of fanatacism brought by supplement manufacturers advertising hype.

WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS

Current US RDA for Protein is no more than 15% of your calorific intake or 0.8 grams per kilo of LEAN bodyweight. For the average (70kg) adult that is 15% of 2500, therefore 94 grammes for the average sedentary adult, The UK department of health recommends 44 grams per day for men. The World Health Organisation recommends 10% (1) but it is easy to believe that these estimates are led by selective research.

According to literature, there are certain conditions where obtaining a positive nitrogen balance is required, pregnancy, growing children and adults undertaking heavy manual labour or exhaustive exercise. In these instances Protein requirements can vary from 1.3 to 2.0 grams per kilogram, less than 30% Protein by calories. So if our average man took up weight lifting he would need up to 140 grams of Protein per day, (2)

Current figures estimate lean mass gain to be in the region of 8lb per year. This is quite a sizeable amount of muscle. Muscle however is 70% water, a factor often forgotten. This yeilds only 2.4lb of actual muscle tissue PER YEAR (natural), that is 3g gain per day (1). So if you are gaining 3g of lean muscle per day then why do you need huge protein intakes?

The answer is given as there is Protein lost to sweat and Urine, some in faeces. Some is destroyed in cooking then digestion. Some is utilised as fuel, although not preferentially over carbs, the rest is used as Enzymes, Hormones, Heamoglobin and of course muscle! (3) It is also estimated that 10-15% of calories burned during exercise are derived from Protein, (2).

High Meat Protein diets, by ratio will almost certainly include a related increase in fat intake as all meat contains fat of some quantity. If you raise the Protein and Fat ratios then your carbs go down. Carbohydrate containing foods include Fruit, Vegetables and Whole grain cereals. If these are excluded from the diet in favour of fat and protein then nutritional deficiencies can result, (3)

High Protein diets are high in Phosphorous and low in Calcium. This leads to an inbalance in our bodies and an acid environment which must be corrected. The body does this by taking Calcium form your bones to buffer the acid. The result after long term usage is Osteoporosis, (2) also see Calcium Dilemma

Scientific recommendations for natural athletes appear to be the following percentage of nutrient by total calories:

10-20% Fat. Derived from EFA's (essential fatty acids)

20-30% Protein. Derived from a mixture of Organic Vegetable, Dairy and Meat sources, in that order with meat and fish eaten only 3-4 times per week.

50-70% Carbohydrates. Sourced mainly from Organic Vegetables, Fruit and Wholegrains, in that order.

Calories should be spread out over 5-6 meals, 3 main meals, 3 snacks.

WHAT DOCTRINE SAYS

Current Bodybuilding doctrine will tell a different story, figures more like 2 grams per POUND (2.2 pounds per kilo) are given with a ratio of about 40-50% of calories from Protein or more. This is spread out over 6 meals and is derived from high BV (biological availability) protein sources.

10% Fat From EFA's

50-70% Protein from high BV sources, such as Eggs, Chicken, Red Meat, Dairy by products (whey etc) with Fish eaten 2-3 times per week. Vegetables are not considered a viable protein source (especially Soya).

20-4-% Carbohydrates from Wholegrains, Vegetables, fruit, with a bulk coming from sugars such as Maltodextrine.

Calories are consumed in 5-6 even meals.

FACTS

Cavemen (from which we evolved) ate an estimated 17% Protein, hunting succesfully, infrequently. The majority of their diet was foraged fruit, nuts, seeds as all hunter gatherers were.

There are 22 naturally occuring Amino Acids of which 9 are essential meaning that the body cannot make these from existing Amino Acids. The rest are either non-essential meaning they can be synthesised in the body or Conditionally Essential meaning that at certain times such as growth, these Amino acids become essential. For bodybuilders it is wise to consider conditionally essential Amino's as essential.

It is not important to consume all of the amino acids in one day, spread over two days is perfectly sufficient at the bodies natural rate of growth.

Glutamine makes up 70% of muscle tissue and is an aid to digestion.

Vegetable Proteins are often considered poor protein sources, not so, it is true that some do not contain a full amino acid spectrum, but by combining them you do get complete Amino profiles. FOr example: Rice + Lentils (1)

It is Quality not quantity of Protein that is the most important. By QUALITY & QUANTITY, the top foods are Eggs, Cod, Yogurt, Tuna, Milk, Quinoa, Cottage Cheese, Oysters, Chicken, Beef, Tofu, Hamburger, Brown Rice, Soya Beans, Spinach, Brocolli, Pumpkin Seeds, Sunflower Seeds. To maintain a healthy diet eat the top 7 which you will notice are not all meats, Keep Protein quality high and you need less of it.(1)

Knowing what Amino Acid to use and when negates the need for large intakes of Protein . For example Glutamine during workouts, Arginine/Ornithine before bedtime. It is important to take a broad spectrum EAA, if you intend to supplement any of the individual amino's to maintain balance.

Individual Amino's should be taken, alone and on an empty stomach. Arginine/Ornithine are closely related and as such can be taken together in doses up to 9g Arginine 5g Ornithine to significantly increase GH (Growth Hormone) output (4,5,6).

Taking Vitamin B6 with any Amino Acid increases its effectiveness.

The average human is only 25% Protein, 65% Water.

A developing baby ingests 1% of its calorific intake in the form of Protein yet DOUBLES its weight in 6 months (2).

Protein is 4 calories per gram.

Protein is thermic, when digested it utilises calories in the digestion process, creating heat, this means that high Protein meals will yeild less net calories due to difficult digestion.

Protein is digested mainly in the stomach where it can sit for up to 3 hours. It is digested by Protease enzymes and HCL (hydrochloric acid) secreted by the stomach. It is later converted into Amino Acids in the small intestine.

Undigested protein is a cause of IBS (irritable bowel), bloating and flatulence are signs of this.

High Protein diets are low in fibre, fibre is required for digestive transit and prevention of bowel cancer.

High Protein diets do not cause Kidney disfunction unless accompanyed by an existing kidney problem or dehydration. (1)

Meat contains a high percentage of saturated fat in comparison to vegetable protein sources.

Reared non-organic meat has been exposed to BGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) linked to various cancers, and antibiotics. It has been fed an unnatural grain diet, and as such contains more fat, in particluar, saturated fat than organic meat or wild game. It may also contain BSE!

Non-Organic Dairy contains the hormones injected into the cows to keep them in a constant state of lactation. This results in high IGF1 levels in the milk which is known to cause breast and prostrate cancer.

Protein sources from meat are much more expensive than those from vegetables and most unused Protein is defecated not stored as fat. So in effect all that money spent on steaks went straight down the toilet.

CONCLUSION

Protein is vitally important for a number of bodily functions, not just muscle making. As such a sensible intake is vital to health. To eat more protein than required contributes to a number of health consequences (Osteoporosis, cancer) and hits your wallet! so caution and moderation is advised.

The natural bodybuilder can obtain all the protein he/she needs in a moderate 30% protein diet, and only 10% of these protein calories need to come from meat. A bowl of Porridge & Milk contains more protein than 2 eggs! Eat Organic wherever practical, if you follow this advice you won't need much meat so you can now afford it!

Don't believe the hype, you don't need Protein supplement at every meal you already have Protein in most everything you eat, and more than enough, supplement wisely and target specific aminos, take Glutamine in the morning and during a workout, take BCAA's before a workout, have a PWO shake, take Glutamine before bed or supplement Arginine/Ornithine.

Example Menu for natural average person or cutting bber.

6am Waking: 5g Glutamine
7am Breakfast: Porridge with Nuts&Seeds & Milk + All Daily Vitamins+ EAA's

10am Snack: Fruit
1pm Lunch: 1 large Chicken Breast with Salad + EAA's
4pm Snack: Fruit
5:30 Pre-Training: 5g BCAA's +3g CEE
6:00 Training: 5g Glutamine.
7:00 Post Training: 5g BCAA + 3g CEE then 10 minutes later PWO shake, Isolate+WMS or Dextrose.
7:30pm Dinner: Tuna, Quinoa & Steamed vegetables.+ EAA's
10pm Bedtime: 5g Glutamine or Arginine/Ornithine (4,5,6) + ZMA for more on ZMA see here
SLEEP!

2348 cals

31%prot/16%fat/52%carbs (including Aminos)

181g Protein/ 42g fat (3%saturated)/327g carbs.

Drink at least 2L of water

You don't have protein at every meal, you don't have a shake with every meal, because you don't need to. The three main meals contain long and slow digesting proteins which will last you the entire day. The menu above also contains all the fibre, phytonutrients and EFA's you need so nothing is excluded. There are a lot of carbs but not excessive and they are all complex/wholegrain, the fat is moderate 16%, higher than some BBers recommend (10%), but derived from EFA's mainly with only 9g Saturated fat, well below recommendations. The Protein is moderate to high 31%, derived from quality sources mainly whey, chicken, tuna and quinoa.

For non-natural athletes reading this, I recommend you eat like a growing child is recommended to, with the higher protein intake, of 2g per kilo minimum spread over the day for muscle repair.

References

(1) New Optimum Nutrition Bible by Patrick Holford

(2) Nutrition For Serious Athletes by Dan Benardot

(3) Staying Healthy With Nutrition by Elson Haas

(4) Effects of L-arginine supplementation on exercise metabolism, Mconnell,G.K

(5) Chronic oral administration of arginine induces GH gene expression and insulin resistance. DeCastro Barbosa T et al

(6) Growth hormone responses to varying doses of oral arginine. Collier, SR et al.

Peg · 09-06-2007, 05:16 PM

Someone asked in the recipe section if it was true that the body only uses no more than 25 grams of protein per meal.

I would say it depends on the following considerations:

The key is to match your protein intake with your training.
If you train hard, you will need a higher protein intake.

If you weigh or train more than you will need more per meal.
A 17 st male will need more protein than a 11 st male.

Nutrition is not a static variable in a person's diet.
The body will need nutrition based on its expenditure of energy in whatever work the body is asked to do, be it contruction work, office work, or weight training.

Here is a good guideline to follow until you find your own optimum quantity of protein that gives you the results you want.

Quote:

Without enough protein (eat at least 10% of your daily calories) your body can't make enough protein to be healthy. Proteins are involved in pretty much every process and structure in your body. If there is too much protein in your diet (over 30% of your daily calories) there are negative side effects if the exercise level and the rest of the diet are not adequate to support the increased protein intake.

The main detriment to too much protein (and not enough carbohydrates) is dehydration caused from your kidneys going into overdrive to flush out the toxic ketones produced. This dehyrdation looks like weight loss, but it also can make you actually lose muscle mass and bone calcium not to mention stress your kidneys and your heart, as well as causing weakness, dizziness and other problems.

One must find one's own optimum ratio of protein/fat/carb for the daily caloric intake needed for one's particular training routine and body metabolism.

Know how many calories you burn per day and adjust your protein intake accordingly.

Peg · 09-06-2007, 06:38 PM

Sports Dr.

Great information.

I have found that sometimes we can't see the forest because we are lost in all the trees.
You've helped to see the forest with your information.

It is crucial for a person to find one's OWN optimum diet and training routine so I prefer to write general principles and formulas that anyone can use successfully.

So many will follow someone else's diet and training and may not find the same results simply because they are not at the same place in their training as the one who posted.

10% but no more than 30% rule until they clean up their diet and are disciplined and consistent with their diet and training. is a good beginning rule to follow. It can be modified as one develops the diet and training.

DANBO · 09-06-2007, 10:54 PM

great post mate, was gonna ask if people knew when is should be taking my cee and glutamine etc, but now i know, thanks

Peg · 10-06-2007, 01:17 AM

Personally, I prefer my amino acids from food and not supplements.
BCAA’s are found in all protein-containing foods, but the best sources are red meat and dairy products. It's no wonder the old schoolers drank alot of milk and ate dairy products.

Not to mention other benefits that eating foods have that we may not have discovered as of yet.

Here's a good read on
creatine

Your body manufactures about half the creatine you need for normal daily functions. The other half comes from your diet. The best dietary sources of creatine are red meat and fish. These foods provide about 1 g of creatine per half pound of raw meat.

Here's a good read on glutamine
glutamine

My concern is that we do not use a variety of food in our diets to get the nutrition we need by focusing only on one aspect of the diet and in that focus we lose sight of other nutrition that is needed for good health and muscle growth.

I have always said that no one vitamin or one macronutrient is the magic bullet to good health and muscle growth. All nutrients are needed as the body requires them in whole. I think the same can be applied to any aspect of nutrition.

By making sure you have the right incomplete protein sources added together you will have the total complete protein that your body needs.

It is of course just easier to take pills, but where is the joy of eating in that?

Stanco · 13-06-2007, 02:54 PM

Thank you so much sportdr for posting this. For me personally, since switching to a diet which is basically balanced (very similiar nutrient ration to what you say), i finally started to gain muscle at a good rate. I agree with you 100%, fantastic post

Liam · 14-06-2007, 09:00 PM

is it a bad thing to intake more protein than u need or will it just pass through you?

SportDr · 14-06-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

is it a bad thing to intake more protein than u need or will it just pass through you?

Did you read the thread?? Excessive Protein causes Osteoporosis over time and kidney stones.

SD

bassline boy · 14-06-2007, 10:47 PM

yer know i once read a artical a good 4 years back about protien been a myth,it was the way they put it that made me think i myself will fully admit i do not take in my 1gram of protien for every pound i wheigh but i still grow fine by doing so,if you look at some off them guys in prison there either ript or massive,i remember that artical saying something like a dog can build muscle on the same amount off food all its life it just needs to exercise more and it will develop i know were not the same as dogs lol but it sometimes makes you think,my bullterrier is gettin ript to the bone.sorry if this is a bit off topic but it just got me thinking again lol.

SportDr · 15-06-2007, 07:21 AM

Not off topic mate, some very interesting points!

SD

bassline boy · 15-06-2007, 10:52 AM

cheers i thought i was gunna get ript there for a moment lol glad you see the point i was trying to get across.

Liam · 15-06-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportDr

Did you read the thread?? Excessive Protein causes Osteoporosis over time and kidney stones.

SD

why read it all when i got you to sum it up for me. thanks

mickus · 15-06-2007, 01:33 PM

Great Post Sports DR, gives a good insight into what we do and what we should do.

Cheers

SportDr · 15-06-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

why read it all when i got you to sum it up for me. thanks

No problem, perhaps when you want to eat I can come round and cut your food up for you too? perhaps even pre-chew it?

SD

Liam · 15-06-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportDr

No problem, perhaps when you want to eat I can come round and cut your food up for you too? perhaps even pre-chew it?

SD

ok do you know the hull area well? i can give u directions

09-04-2007, 11:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
SportDr Getting HUGE! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK Posts: 2,705	Protein: How Much Do You Need Just how much Protein do you need? Its a question that comes up all the time and has been answered elsewhere, but begs revisiting. The reason for this is that requirements get confused in the haze of fanatacism brought by supplement manufacturers advertising hype. WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS Current US RDA for Protein is no more than 15% of your calorific intake or 0.8 grams per kilo of LEAN bodyweight. For the average (70kg) adult that is 15% of 2500, therefore 94 grammes for the average sedentary adult, The UK department of health recommends 44 grams per day for men. The World Health Organisation recommends 10% (1) but it is easy to believe that these estimates are led by selective research. According to literature, there are certain conditions where obtaining a positive nitrogen balance is required, pregnancy, growing children and adults undertaking heavy manual labour or exhaustive exercise. In these instances Protein requirements can vary from 1.3 to 2.0 grams per kilogram, less than 30% Protein by calories. So if our average man took up weight lifting he would need up to 140 grams of Protein per day, (2) Current figures estimate lean mass gain to be in the region of 8lb per year. This is quite a sizeable amount of muscle. Muscle however is 70% water, a factor often forgotten. This yeilds only 2.4lb of actual muscle tissue PER YEAR (natural), that is 3g gain per day (1). So if you are gaining 3g of lean muscle per day then why do you need huge protein intakes? The answer is given as there is Protein lost to sweat and Urine, some in faeces. Some is destroyed in cooking then digestion. Some is utilised as fuel, although not preferentially over carbs, the rest is used as Enzymes, Hormones, Heamoglobin and of course muscle! (3) It is also estimated that 10-15% of calories burned during exercise are derived from Protein, (2). High Meat Protein diets, by ratio will almost certainly include a related increase in fat intake as all meat contains fat of some quantity. If you raise the Protein and Fat ratios then your carbs go down. Carbohydrate containing foods include Fruit, Vegetables and Whole grain cereals. If these are excluded from the diet in favour of fat and protein then nutritional deficiencies can result, (3) High Protein diets are high in Phosphorous and low in Calcium. This leads to an inbalance in our bodies and an acid environment which must be corrected. The body does this by taking Calcium form your bones to buffer the acid. The result after long term usage is Osteoporosis, (2) also see Calcium Dilemma Scientific recommendations for natural athletes appear to be the following percentage of nutrient by total calories: 10-20% Fat. Derived from EFA's (essential fatty acids) 20-30% Protein. Derived from a mixture of Organic Vegetable, Dairy and Meat sources, in that order with meat and fish eaten only 3-4 times per week. 50-70% Carbohydrates. Sourced mainly from Organic Vegetables, Fruit and Wholegrains, in that order. Calories should be spread out over 5-6 meals, 3 main meals, 3 snacks. WHAT DOCTRINE SAYS Current Bodybuilding doctrine will tell a different story, figures more like 2 grams per POUND (2.2 pounds per kilo) are given with a ratio of about 40-50% of calories from Protein or more. This is spread out over 6 meals and is derived from high BV (biological availability) protein sources. 10% Fat From EFA's 50-70% Protein from high BV sources, such as Eggs, Chicken, Red Meat, Dairy by products (whey etc) with Fish eaten 2-3 times per week. Vegetables are not considered a viable protein source (especially Soya). 20-4-% Carbohydrates from Wholegrains, Vegetables, fruit, with a bulk coming from sugars such as Maltodextrine. Calories are consumed in 5-6 even meals. FACTS Cavemen (from which we evolved) ate an estimated 17% Protein, hunting succesfully, infrequently. The majority of their diet was foraged fruit, nuts, seeds as all hunter gatherers were. There are 22 naturally occuring Amino Acids of which 9 are essential meaning that the body cannot make these from existing Amino Acids. The rest are either non-essential meaning they can be synthesised in the body or Conditionally Essential meaning that at certain times such as growth, these Amino acids become essential. For bodybuilders it is wise to consider conditionally essential Amino's as essential. It is not important to consume all of the amino acids in one day, spread over two days is perfectly sufficient at the bodies natural rate of growth. Glutamine makes up 70% of muscle tissue and is an aid to digestion. Vegetable Proteins are often considered poor protein sources, not so, it is true that some do not contain a full amino acid spectrum, but by combining them you do get complete Amino profiles. FOr example: Rice + Lentils (1) It is Quality not quantity of Protein that is the most important. By QUALITY & QUANTITY, the top foods are Eggs, Cod, Yogurt, Tuna, Milk, Quinoa, Cottage Cheese, Oysters, Chicken, Beef, Tofu, Hamburger, Brown Rice, Soya Beans, Spinach, Brocolli, Pumpkin Seeds, Sunflower Seeds. To maintain a healthy diet eat the top 7 which you will notice are not all meats, Keep Protein quality high and you need less of it.(1) Knowing what Amino Acid to use and when negates the need for large intakes of Protein . For example Glutamine during workouts, Arginine/Ornithine before bedtime. It is important to take a broad spectrum EAA, if you intend to supplement any of the individual amino's to maintain balance. Individual Amino's should be taken, alone and on an empty stomach. Arginine/Ornithine are closely related and as such can be taken together in doses up to 9g Arginine 5g Ornithine to significantly increase GH (Growth Hormone) output (4,5,6). Taking Vitamin B6 with any Amino Acid increases its effectiveness. The average human is only 25% Protein, 65% Water. A developing baby ingests 1% of its calorific intake in the form of Protein yet DOUBLES its weight in 6 months (2). Protein is 4 calories per gram. Protein is thermic, when digested it utilises calories in the digestion process, creating heat, this means that high Protein meals will yeild less net calories due to difficult digestion. Protein is digested mainly in the stomach where it can sit for up to 3 hours. It is digested by Protease enzymes and HCL (hydrochloric acid) secreted by the stomach. It is later converted into Amino Acids in the small intestine. Undigested protein is a cause of IBS (irritable bowel), bloating and flatulence are signs of this. High Protein diets are low in fibre, fibre is required for digestive transit and prevention of bowel cancer. High Protein diets do not cause Kidney disfunction unless accompanyed by an existing kidney problem or dehydration. (1) Meat contains a high percentage of saturated fat in comparison to vegetable protein sources. Reared non-organic meat has been exposed to BGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) linked to various cancers, and antibiotics. It has been fed an unnatural grain diet, and as such contains more fat, in particluar, saturated fat than organic meat or wild game. It may also contain BSE! Non-Organic Dairy contains the hormones injected into the cows to keep them in a constant state of lactation. This results in high IGF1 levels in the milk which is known to cause breast and prostrate cancer. Protein sources from meat are much more expensive than those from vegetables and most unused Protein is defecated not stored as fat. So in effect all that money spent on steaks went straight down the toilet. CONCLUSION Protein is vitally important for a number of bodily functions, not just muscle making. As such a sensible intake is vital to health. To eat more protein than required contributes to a number of health consequences (Osteoporosis, cancer) and hits your wallet! so caution and moderation is advised. The natural bodybuilder can obtain all the protein he/she needs in a moderate 30% protein diet, and only 10% of these protein calories need to come from meat. A bowl of Porridge & Milk contains more protein than 2 eggs! Eat Organic wherever practical, if you follow this advice you won't need much meat so you can now afford it! Don't believe the hype, you don't need Protein supplement at every meal you already have Protein in most everything you eat, and more than enough, supplement wisely and target specific aminos, take Glutamine in the morning and during a workout, take BCAA's before a workout, have a PWO shake, take Glutamine before bed or supplement Arginine/Ornithine. Example Menu for natural average person or cutting bber. 6am Waking: 5g Glutamine 7am Breakfast: Porridge with Nuts&Seeds & Milk + All Daily Vitamins+ EAA's 10am Snack: Fruit 1pm Lunch: 1 large Chicken Breast with Salad + EAA's 4pm Snack: Fruit 5:30 Pre-Training: 5g BCAA's +3g CEE 6:00 Training: 5g Glutamine. 7:00 Post Training: 5g BCAA + 3g CEE then 10 minutes later PWO shake, Isolate+WMS or Dextrose. 7:30pm Dinner: Tuna, Quinoa & Steamed vegetables.+ EAA's 10pm Bedtime: 5g Glutamine or Arginine/Ornithine (4,5,6) + ZMA for more on ZMA see here SLEEP! 2348 cals 31%prot/16%fat/52%carbs (including Aminos) 181g Protein/ 42g fat (3%saturated)/327g carbs. Drink at least 2L of water You don't have protein at every meal, you don't have a shake with every meal, because you don't need to. The three main meals contain long and slow digesting proteins which will last you the entire day. The menu above also contains all the fibre, phytonutrients and EFA's you need so nothing is excluded. There are a lot of carbs but not excessive and they are all complex/wholegrain, the fat is moderate 16%, higher than some BBers recommend (10%), but derived from EFA's mainly with only 9g Saturated fat, well below recommendations. The Protein is moderate to high 31%, derived from quality sources mainly whey, chicken, tuna and quinoa. For non-natural athletes reading this, I recommend you eat like a growing child is recommended to, with the higher protein intake, of 2g per kilo minimum spread over the day for muscle repair. References (1) New Optimum Nutrition Bible by Patrick Holford (2) Nutrition For Serious Athletes by Dan Benardot (3) Staying Healthy With Nutrition by Elson Haas (4) Effects of L-arginine supplementation on exercise metabolism, Mconnell,G.K (5) Chronic oral administration of arginine induces GH gene expression and insulin resistance. DeCastro Barbosa T et al (6) Growth hormone responses to varying doses of oral arginine. Collier, SR et al. __________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819 Last edited by SportDr; 20-04-2007 at 11:00 PM.

09-06-2007, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,468	Re: Protein? Myths/Facts/Ratios Sports Dr. Great information. I have found that sometimes we can't see the forest because we are lost in all the trees. You've helped to see the forest with your information. It is crucial for a person to find one's OWN optimum diet and training routine so I prefer to write general principles and formulas that anyone can use successfully. So many will follow someone else's diet and training and may not find the same results simply because they are not at the same place in their training as the one who posted. 10% but no more than 30% rule until they clean up their diet and are disciplined and consistent with their diet and training. is a good beginning rule to follow. It can be modified as one develops the diet and training. __________________ "21st century man is not conquered by guns, nor by oppression, but by seduction." "Pride to the human heart is like lard to the pig." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn "The best punch is the one that is both first, last, and ends the fight." Last edited by Peg; 10-06-2007 at 01:17 AM.

09-06-2007, 10:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
DANBO arnold wannabe Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need great post mate, was gonna ask if people knew when is should be taking my cee and glutamine etc, but now i know, thanks

10-06-2007, 01:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,468	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need Personally, I prefer my amino acids from food and not supplements. BCAA’s are found in all protein-containing foods, but the best sources are red meat and dairy products. It's no wonder the old schoolers drank alot of milk and ate dairy products. Not to mention other benefits that eating foods have that we may not have discovered as of yet. Here's a good read on creatine Your body manufactures about half the creatine you need for normal daily functions. The other half comes from your diet. The best dietary sources of creatine are red meat and fish. These foods provide about 1 g of creatine per half pound of raw meat. Here's a good read on glutamine glutamine My concern is that we do not use a variety of food in our diets to get the nutrition we need by focusing only on one aspect of the diet and in that focus we lose sight of other nutrition that is needed for good health and muscle growth. I have always said that no one vitamin or one macronutrient is the magic bullet to good health and muscle growth. All nutrients are needed as the body requires them in whole. I think the same can be applied to any aspect of nutrition. By making sure you have the right incomplete protein sources added together you will have the total complete protein that your body needs. It is of course just easier to take pills, but where is the joy of eating in that? __________________ "21st century man is not conquered by guns, nor by oppression, but by seduction." "Pride to the human heart is like lard to the pig." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn "The best punch is the one that is both first, last, and ends the fight."

13-06-2007, 02:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stanco Gym Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 334	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need Thank you so much sportdr for posting this. For me personally, since switching to a diet which is basically balanced (very similiar nutrient ration to what you say), i finally started to gain muscle at a good rate. I agree with you 100%, fantastic post

14-06-2007, 09:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Liam Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Newcastle Posts: 1,466	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need is it a bad thing to intake more protein than u need or will it just pass through you?

14-06-2007, 10:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
bassline boy G-CREW Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MARS Posts: 731	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need yer know i once read a artical a good 4 years back about protien been a myth,it was the way they put it that made me think i myself will fully admit i do not take in my 1gram of protien for every pound i wheigh but i still grow fine by doing so,if you look at some off them guys in prison there either ript or massive,i remember that artical saying something like a dog can build muscle on the same amount off food all its life it just needs to exercise more and it will develop i know were not the same as dogs lol but it sometimes makes you think,my bullterrier is gettin ript to the bone.sorry if this is a bit off topic but it just got me thinking again lol.

15-06-2007, 07:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
SportDr Getting HUGE! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK Posts: 2,705	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need Not off topic mate, some very interesting points! SD __________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819

15-06-2007, 10:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
bassline boy G-CREW Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MARS Posts: 731	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need cheers i thought i was gunna get ript there for a moment lol glad you see the point i was trying to get across.

15-06-2007, 01:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
mickus Looking Freaky Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: North London Posts: 518	Re: Protein: How Much Do You Need Great Post Sports DR, gives a good insight into what we do and what we should do. Cheers