tendons or what ? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

B. Robbo · 27-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Hi Guys.
I'm just wondering what this pain is and if there is anything i can do to avoid it.
Basically it's a fu#-in annoying pain in the crease between your forearm and your bicep. My cousin who i use to train with said he thinks it could be my tendons.
It does go away but now and agian, especially when i'm training bi's it comes back and will constantly hurt for up to 3-4 days after my session which cocks up the rest of my training.
Any ideas and what can i do, if anything, to avoid it ( apart from not train bi's):rage:

BL1 · 27-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Sounds like tendonitus (sp) mate. I believe rest and a good support could be in order. I haven't suffered the condition myself mate so bump for some more info.

LondonGeezer · 27-06-2006, 02:12 PM

yep i suffered that 2weeks ago its a bltch i kno.. use an ice patch and rest it.. skip arms for 1week and you should be ready and back in action the following week.. i used an ice patch straight away and within 3days i was ready to train again but maybe you could consider missing just 1week? because if its been hurting and u've still been training on it and not giving it rest then its only gotten worse rite.

Peg · 27-06-2006, 07:29 PM

IF it is bicep tendonitis, here is some information for you:

Bicep tendonitis
torn bicep muscle
more information
Exercises to do to rehabilitate the arm

How is your omega 3 intake? Increase that by 4000mg while pain is acute along with 3000 vitamin mg C and 800IU of vitamin E while pain is acute.
Make sure when you are healed that you do a proper stretch and warm up.

LondonGeezer · 27-06-2006, 10:07 PM

^^^^^ Great stuff i used just an ice-pack and deep heat and sumtimes nurofen gel which contain ibuprofen in it.. did the trick for me but its dependant on his injury. from the "torn bicep muscle" link mate u shud be able to recognise if its the muscle or the tendon and work from there on how to recover..

**hackskii** · 28-06-2006, 01:33 AM

The Omega 3 will be about 4 times that high for it to work well.
It would be around 20 fish oils to get the benefits of anti-inflammation.

But honestly, a layoff of biceps might be in order.

B. Robbo · 28-06-2006, 07:24 AM

thanks for all the reply's guys. your advice is greatly appreciated

Peg · 28-06-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackskii

The Omega 3 will be about 4 times that high for it to work well.
It would be around 20 fish oils to get the benefits of anti-inflammation.

That would be about right.

I was thinking 16 as I take 12 now, but I don't have the muscle mass that you big lads have so that is why I said increase what you are taking right now by 4000mg.
Thanks Scott, that will give me a reference in the future. How massive are you??

I took 16 for my shoulder.
and the lay off is advisable as well...
I had to gently exercise my shoulder without weights though for rehab...
Did the same thing for a nagging hamstring injury a few years back... but then didn't know about the omega 3's. I bet the hams would have healed faster.

LondonGeezer · 28-06-2006, 07:31 PM

i still dont know much about omega 3 apart from speed up recovery and needed for muscle growth.. ive yet to read it up but there's just TOO much to read on it.

**hackskii** · 28-06-2006, 08:49 PM

Here you go london mate:

They are awesome for supporting HDL's (good cholesterol), lowering your LDL's (bad cholesterol) and hammering down your triglycerides (fat in the blood).
Not only that but they improve prostaglandins and these are kindof like little hormonal like substances that control vital parts of the body like circulatory system, heart function, immune system, skin (largest organ in the body).

The body does not store prostaglandins but uses them as needed then they are out of the body. It is very important to keep the oils in the body and keep them around each meal.

Fish oils help to keep the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids in ballance.
There might not be anything more improtant than this to aid the immune system, keep inflimation in check, keep the prostate healthy (highest concintration of prostaglandings in the mans body), good for keeping the heart and circulation in good running order, aid in blood pressure, asthma, arthritis, infertility and much more.

Usefull in probably the best fat burning for supporting brown fat and brown fats thermogenic effect on the body.

Also very important for turning a person from being insulin resistant to insulin sensitive.
This is where it will help to use less insulin to do the job instead of using more insulin, and getting fatter and probably turning into a diabetic later on in life.

Snip

Fish oils to Enter Weight Loss Category?

Reprinted with permission from www.NutraIngredients.com, January 25, 2005

Emerging research looks set to position fish oils as a new ingredient for weight loss foods and supplements, reports Dominique Patton.

There is already evidence to link consumption of seafood with reduced risk of weight gain but there has been little knowledge so far about how this effect is produced. New studies carried out by one of the top three omega-3 suppliers, Pronova Biocare, have identified a potential mechanism for the weight reduction effect of fish-derived omega-3 fatty acids in mice.

The company, which will patent the findings on its concentrated DHA/EPA combination, says that a human trial underway in the Czech Republic may confirm the animal results in the coming months. “No mechanisms have been suggested for this effect to my knowledge. This is very new,” Morten Bryhn, director of research and development for Pronova Biocare, told NutraIngredients.com.

Researchers from the company and colleagues at Charles University and the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic in Prague report on their results in the December issue of Lipids (vol 39, pp 1177-1185). They showed that a 60 percent omega-3 concentrate, containing 50 percent docosahexaenoic acid and 10 percent EPA (known as EPAX 1050 TG) increased oxidation of fat by activating genes that break down fat in the mitochondriae and peroxisomes.

The fish oil concentrates not only caused weight reduction in the mice but they also appeared to stop the animals from gaining weight when given free access to food. Additionally, the omega-3 concentrate reduced the number of fat cells, especially in the abdominal region. These effects were increased in animals that were put on a 10 percent calorie reduction regime.

The regimen was previously tested in a pilot study, presented at the North American Association for Study of Obesity (NAASO) meeting in November (abstract no 249-P). It involved 20 women with severe obesity (body mass index of more than 40) who were already on a very low calorie diet.

The group given the omega-3 concentrate reduced their weight by 20 percent more than the placebo group after only three weeks of treatment (7.55 kg compared to 6.07kg in the placebo group). BMI was reduced by as much as 15 percent, says Pronova.

The firm has now initiated a larger study of 30 obese women to confirm these findings. The trial, as well as the previous pilot trial, will also give researchers the chance to check the mechanism identified in mice by analyzing biopsies of fat tissue taken from the patients. “We are planning to present these results at Vitafoods in May,” Dr Bryn said. “Most products in this area make a lot of promises for fast weight loss. But this really targets the mechanism behind weight gain and offers the possibility for weight loss,” he added.

Being overweight is not only a problem of too much food and too little exercise but also a problem of bombarding genes with signals leading to fat accumulation, explained Dr Bryn. “A diet rich in red meat and vegetable oils increases accumulation of fat in fat tissue because of a chronic disarray of genes responsible for handling fatty acids and carbohydrates.”

He explained that the number of fat cells increases, boosting the turnover of carbohydrates into fat. The resulting overweight or obesity is difficult to curb by calorie reduction and exercise only. “Genes are constantly programmed to a situation of starvation and they need to be reprogrammed. Omega-3 fatty acids from seafood seem to do exactly that,” added Dr Bryhn.

The findings support yet another benefit from omega-3 fatty acids, already being added to foods designed to improve heart health.

The weight loss category of foods and supplements is currently booming (worth more than $3 billion per year in the US) based on rising numbers of overweight people around the world. It is set to grow even faster in coming years as increasing numbers of children are already overweight.

Experts estimate that almost 25 percent of children in the EU are now obese, with about 400,000 becoming either obese or overweight every year. However Dr Bryhn claims that Pronova products will not “produce a dramatic effect, but should be marketed with a reasonable type of weight control diet".

Omega-3 fatty acids could be at an advantage over some other weight loss ingredients because of their long, safe history of therapeutic use. Some products have been patented for use in pharmaceuticals targeting specific health conditions or diseases and there are hundreds of clinical trials backing their safety.

Another snip

RATIO OF OMEGA-6 TO OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

Fat is classified into saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, and monounsaturated fats. Saturated fats are believed to increase your risk for heart attacks when you take in more calories than you burn. We used to think that all polyunsaturated fats help to prevent heart attacks when they replace saturated fats, but now we have different information. Polyunsaturated fats are classified by their structures into omega-3s and omega-6s, and you need both types; these are called the essential fatty acids because you cannot make them in your body and must get them from your food.

For most of the time humans have been on earth we have eaten foods containing omega-6's and omega-3's in a ratio of about 2:1. However, over the last 50 years in North America, the ratio has changed to from 2:1 to 10-20:1. Our diet now includes huge amounts of oils that are extracted from plants and used for cooking or in prepared foods. These oils (such as corn oil, safflower oil, cottonseed oil, peanut oil, soybean oil) are primarily omega-6s. We have decreased our intake of omega-3's, found primarily in whole grains, beans and other seeds, and seafood.

Eating too much omega-6 and too little omega-3 causes clots and constricts arteries to increase risk for heart attacks, increases swelling to worsen arthritis, and aggravates a skin disease called psoriasis. It may block a person's ability to respond to insulin, causing high insulin and blood sugar levels and obesity. It increases hormone levels of insulin like growth factor-1 that causes certain cancers.

To get your ratio on omega-6s to omega-3s back to a more healthful 2:1, eat seafood, whole grains, beans and other seeds, and reduce your intake of foods made with or cooked in vegetable oils.

Snip:

Essential fatty acids like omega 3's, omega-6's and omega-9's come from dietary fats; they lower triglycerides and soothe inflammation, helping the liver convert pro-inflammatory blood acids like homocysteine into anti-inflammatory agents. You also feed your body the essential nutrients it needs for normal cell growth and repair.

Another snip:

Here is a little snip form some articles:
Most Americans are Omega-3 deficient because of our over-processed diets. One of the most common symptoms of Omega-3 deficiency is depression, among other mental health symptoms, and of course depression is common among Americans. NOT ME!

For example, good fats compete with bad fats, so it's important to minimize the intake of trans fats and cholesterol (animal fat) while consuming enough good fats. Also, good fats raise your HDL or "good cholesterol". One of the jobs of this High Density Lipoprotein (HDL) or "good cholesterol" is to grab your bad cholesterol, LDL (Low Density Lipoprotein), and escort it to the liver where it is broken down and excreted. In other words, these good fats attack some of the damage already done by the bad fats. This is very important in an age when so many Americans are struggling to get their cholesterol down, and fight heart disease and obesity.

Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) are necessary fats that humans cannot synthesize, and must be obtained through diet.
EFAs support the cardiovascular, reproductive, immune, and nervous systems. The human body needs EFAs to manufacture and repair cell membranes, enabling the cells to obtain optimum nutrition and expel harmful waste products. A primary function of EFAs is the production of prostaglandins, which regulate body functions such as heart rate, blood pressure, blood clotting, fertility, conception, and play a role in immune function by regulating inflammation and encouraging the body to fight infection.

EFA deficiency is common in the United States, particularly Omega-3 deficiency. An ideal intake ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids is between 1:1 and 4:1, with most Americans only obtaining a ratio between 10:1 and 25:1 Now this is where the problem is!

EFA deficiency and Omega 6/3 imbalance is linked with serious health conditions, such as heart attacks, cancer, insulin resistance, asthma, lupus, schizophrenia, depression, postpartum depression, accelerated aging, stroke, obesity, diabetes, arthritis, ADHD, and Alzheimer's Disease, among others.

That is just a few word searches on this board, there are many more, if you look.

LondonGeezer · 28-06-2006, 09:41 PM

whoa see wot i mean.. so much to read.. but fanks mate ive started on it lol

27-06-2006, 10:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
B. Robbo pommy power Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 25	tendons or what ? Hi Guys. I'm just wondering what this pain is and if there is anything i can do to avoid it. Basically it's a fu#-in annoying pain in the crease between your forearm and your bicep. My cousin who i use to train with said he thinks it could be my tendons. It does go away but now and agian, especially when i'm training bi's it comes back and will constantly hurt for up to 3-4 days after my session which cocks up the rest of my training. Any ideas and what can i do, if anything, to avoid it ( apart from not train bi's):rage:

27-06-2006, 02:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	yep i suffered that 2weeks ago its a bltch i kno.. use an ice patch and rest it.. skip arms for 1week and you should be ready and back in action the following week.. i used an ice patch straight away and within 3days i was ready to train again but maybe you could consider missing just 1week? because if its been hurting and u've still been training on it and not giving it rest then its only gotten worse rite. __________________ NEED INFORMATION?? FIND IT HERE: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My NEWEST website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Eee-Ooo Dares.. Wins!!:lift: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

27-06-2006, 07:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,468	IF it is bicep tendonitis, here is some information for you: Bicep tendonitis torn bicep muscle more information Exercises to do to rehabilitate the arm How is your omega 3 intake? Increase that by 4000mg while pain is acute along with 3000 vitamin mg C and 800IU of vitamin E while pain is acute. Make sure when you are healed that you do a proper stretch and warm up. __________________ "21st century man is not conquered by guns, nor by oppression, but by seduction." "Pride to the human heart is like lard to the pig." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn "The best punch is the one that is both first, last, and ends the fight."

27-06-2006, 10:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	^^^^^ Great stuff i used just an ice-pack and deep heat and sumtimes nurofen gel which contain ibuprofen in it.. did the trick for me but its dependant on his injury. from the "torn bicep muscle" link mate u shud be able to recognise if its the muscle or the tendon and work from there on how to recover.. __________________ NEED INFORMATION?? FIND IT HERE: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My NEWEST website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Eee-Ooo Dares.. Wins!!:lift: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

28-06-2006, 01:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	The Omega 3 will be about 4 times that high for it to work well. It would be around 20 fish oils to get the benefits of anti-inflammation. But honestly, a layoff of biceps might be in order. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

27-06-2006, 11:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
BL1 Gym Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 411	Sounds like tendonitus (sp) mate. I believe rest and a good support could be in order. I haven't suffered the condition myself mate so bump for some more info.

28-06-2006, 07:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
B. Robbo pommy power Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 25	thanks for all the reply's guys. your advice is greatly appreciated

28-06-2006, 07:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	i still dont know much about omega 3 apart from speed up recovery and needed for muscle growth.. ive yet to read it up but there's just TOO much to read on it. __________________ NEED INFORMATION?? FIND IT HERE: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My NEWEST website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Eee-Ooo Dares.. Wins!!:lift: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

28-06-2006, 08:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	Here you go london mate: They are awesome for supporting HDL's (good cholesterol), lowering your LDL's (bad cholesterol) and hammering down your triglycerides (fat in the blood). Not only that but they improve prostaglandins and these are kindof like little hormonal like substances that control vital parts of the body like circulatory system, heart function, immune system, skin (largest organ in the body). The body does not store prostaglandins but uses them as needed then they are out of the body. It is very important to keep the oils in the body and keep them around each meal. Fish oils help to keep the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids in ballance. There might not be anything more improtant than this to aid the immune system, keep inflimation in check, keep the prostate healthy (highest concintration of prostaglandings in the mans body), good for keeping the heart and circulation in good running order, aid in blood pressure, asthma, arthritis, infertility and much more. Usefull in probably the best fat burning for supporting brown fat and brown fats thermogenic effect on the body. Also very important for turning a person from being insulin resistant to insulin sensitive. This is where it will help to use less insulin to do the job instead of using more insulin, and getting fatter and probably turning into a diabetic later on in life. Snip Fish oils to Enter Weight Loss Category? Reprinted with permission from www.NutraIngredients.com, January 25, 2005 Emerging research looks set to position fish oils as a new ingredient for weight loss foods and supplements, reports Dominique Patton. There is already evidence to link consumption of seafood with reduced risk of weight gain but there has been little knowledge so far about how this effect is produced. New studies carried out by one of the top three omega-3 suppliers, Pronova Biocare, have identified a potential mechanism for the weight reduction effect of fish-derived omega-3 fatty acids in mice. The company, which will patent the findings on its concentrated DHA/EPA combination, says that a human trial underway in the Czech Republic may confirm the animal results in the coming months. “No mechanisms have been suggested for this effect to my knowledge. This is very new,” Morten Bryhn, director of research and development for Pronova Biocare, told NutraIngredients.com. Researchers from the company and colleagues at Charles University and the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic in Prague report on their results in the December issue of Lipids (vol 39, pp 1177-1185). They showed that a 60 percent omega-3 concentrate, containing 50 percent docosahexaenoic acid and 10 percent EPA (known as EPAX 1050 TG) increased oxidation of fat by activating genes that break down fat in the mitochondriae and peroxisomes. The fish oil concentrates not only caused weight reduction in the mice but they also appeared to stop the animals from gaining weight when given free access to food. Additionally, the omega-3 concentrate reduced the number of fat cells, especially in the abdominal region. These effects were increased in animals that were put on a 10 percent calorie reduction regime. The regimen was previously tested in a pilot study, presented at the North American Association for Study of Obesity (NAASO) meeting in November (abstract no 249-P). It involved 20 women with severe obesity (body mass index of more than 40) who were already on a very low calorie diet. The group given the omega-3 concentrate reduced their weight by 20 percent more than the placebo group after only three weeks of treatment (7.55 kg compared to 6.07kg in the placebo group). BMI was reduced by as much as 15 percent, says Pronova. The firm has now initiated a larger study of 30 obese women to confirm these findings. The trial, as well as the previous pilot trial, will also give researchers the chance to check the mechanism identified in mice by analyzing biopsies of fat tissue taken from the patients. “We are planning to present these results at Vitafoods in May,” Dr Bryn said. “Most products in this area make a lot of promises for fast weight loss. But this really targets the mechanism behind weight gain and offers the possibility for weight loss,” he added. Being overweight is not only a problem of too much food and too little exercise but also a problem of bombarding genes with signals leading to fat accumulation, explained Dr Bryn. “A diet rich in red meat and vegetable oils increases accumulation of fat in fat tissue because of a chronic disarray of genes responsible for handling fatty acids and carbohydrates.” He explained that the number of fat cells increases, boosting the turnover of carbohydrates into fat. The resulting overweight or obesity is difficult to curb by calorie reduction and exercise only. “Genes are constantly programmed to a situation of starvation and they need to be reprogrammed. Omega-3 fatty acids from seafood seem to do exactly that,” added Dr Bryhn. The findings support yet another benefit from omega-3 fatty acids, already being added to foods designed to improve heart health. The weight loss category of foods and supplements is currently booming (worth more than $3 billion per year in the US) based on rising numbers of overweight people around the world. It is set to grow even faster in coming years as increasing numbers of children are already overweight. Experts estimate that almost 25 percent of children in the EU are now obese, with about 400,000 becoming either obese or overweight every year. However Dr Bryhn claims that Pronova products will not “produce a dramatic effect, but should be marketed with a reasonable type of weight control diet". Omega-3 fatty acids could be at an advantage over some other weight loss ingredients because of their long, safe history of therapeutic use. Some products have been patented for use in pharmaceuticals targeting specific health conditions or diseases and there are hundreds of clinical trials backing their safety. Another snip RATIO OF OMEGA-6 TO OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS Gabe Mirkin, M.D. Fat is classified into saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, and monounsaturated fats. Saturated fats are believed to increase your risk for heart attacks when you take in more calories than you burn. We used to think that all polyunsaturated fats help to prevent heart attacks when they replace saturated fats, but now we have different information. Polyunsaturated fats are classified by their structures into omega-3s and omega-6s, and you need both types; these are called the essential fatty acids because you cannot make them in your body and must get them from your food. For most of the time humans have been on earth we have eaten foods containing omega-6's and omega-3's in a ratio of about 2:1. However, over the last 50 years in North America, the ratio has changed to from 2:1 to 10-20:1. Our diet now includes huge amounts of oils that are extracted from plants and used for cooking or in prepared foods. These oils (such as corn oil, safflower oil, cottonseed oil, peanut oil, soybean oil) are primarily omega-6s. We have decreased our intake of omega-3's, found primarily in whole grains, beans and other seeds, and seafood. Eating too much omega-6 and too little omega-3 causes clots and constricts arteries to increase risk for heart attacks, increases swelling to worsen arthritis, and aggravates a skin disease called psoriasis. It may block a person's ability to respond to insulin, causing high insulin and blood sugar levels and obesity. It increases hormone levels of insulin like growth factor-1 that causes certain cancers. To get your ratio on omega-6s to omega-3s back to a more healthful 2:1, eat seafood, whole grains, beans and other seeds, and reduce your intake of foods made with or cooked in vegetable oils. Snip: Essential fatty acids like omega 3's, omega-6's and omega-9's come from dietary fats; they lower triglycerides and soothe inflammation, helping the liver convert pro-inflammatory blood acids like homocysteine into anti-inflammatory agents. You also feed your body the essential nutrients it needs for normal cell growth and repair. Another snip: Here is a little snip form some articles: Most Americans are Omega-3 deficient because of our over-processed diets. One of the most common symptoms of Omega-3 deficiency is depression, among other mental health symptoms, and of course depression is common among Americans. NOT ME! For example, good fats compete with bad fats, so it's important to minimize the intake of trans fats and cholesterol (animal fat) while consuming enough good fats. Also, good fats raise your HDL or "good cholesterol". One of the jobs of this High Density Lipoprotein (HDL) or "good cholesterol" is to grab your bad cholesterol, LDL (Low Density Lipoprotein), and escort it to the liver where it is broken down and excreted. In other words, these good fats attack some of the damage already done by the bad fats. This is very important in an age when so many Americans are struggling to get their cholesterol down, and fight heart disease and obesity. Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs) are necessary fats that humans cannot synthesize, and must be obtained through diet. EFAs support the cardiovascular, reproductive, immune, and nervous systems. The human body needs EFAs to manufacture and repair cell membranes, enabling the cells to obtain optimum nutrition and expel harmful waste products. A primary function of EFAs is the production of prostaglandins, which regulate body functions such as heart rate, blood pressure, blood clotting, fertility, conception, and play a role in immune function by regulating inflammation and encouraging the body to fight infection. EFA deficiency is common in the United States, particularly Omega-3 deficiency. An ideal intake ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids is between 1:1 and 4:1, with most Americans only obtaining a ratio between 10:1 and 25:1 Now this is where the problem is! EFA deficiency and Omega 6/3 imbalance is linked with serious health conditions, such as heart attacks, cancer, insulin resistance, asthma, lupus, schizophrenia, depression, postpartum depression, accelerated aging, stroke, obesity, diabetes, arthritis, ADHD, and Alzheimer's Disease, among others. That is just a few word searches on this board, there are many more, if you look. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

28-06-2006, 09:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
LondonGeezer Looking Freaky Join Date: May 2006 Location: South-East London Posts: 881	whoa see wot i mean.. so much to read.. but fanks mate ive started on it lol __________________ NEED INFORMATION?? FIND IT HERE: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My NEWEST website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Eee-Ooo Dares.. Wins!!:lift: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.