an OLD SCHOOL workout - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

samurai69 · 22-03-2005, 07:03 PM

Borrowed off another forum, looks interesting, ondered what OSC thought as well as winger (hit) and others

"oldschool routine but its worked for me so far with some minor alteration in sets and arrangment!

Arnold's Routine

Chest:
Bench press 5 x 6-10
Flat bench flyes 5 x 6-10
Incline bench press 6 x 6-10
Cable crossovers 6 x 10-12
Dips (body weight) 5 x failure
Dumbell pullovers 5 x 10-12.

Back:
Wide-grip chins (to front) 6 x failure
T-bar rows 5 x 6-10
Seated pulley rows 6 x 6-10
One-arm dumbell rows 5 x 6-10
Straight-leg deadlifts 6 x 15

Legs:
Squats 6 x 8-12
Leg press 6 x 8-12
Leg extensions 6 x 12-15
Leg curls 6 x 10-12
Barbell lunges 5 x 15

Calves:
Standing calf raises 10 x 10
Seated calf raises 8 x 15
One legged calf raises (holding dumbells) 6x12

Forearms:
Wrist curls (forearms on knees) - 4 sets, 10 reps
Reverse barbell curls - 4 sets, 8 reps
Wright roller machine - to failure

Abs:
½ hour of a variety of nonspecific abdominal exercises, done virtually nonstop.

Biceps:
Barbell curls 6 x 6-10
Seated dumbell curls 6 x 6-10
Dumbell concentration curls 6 x 6-10

Triceps:
Close-grip bench presses 6 x 6-10
Pushdowns 6 x 6-10
French press (barbell) 6 x 6-10
One-arm triceps extensions (dumbell) 6 x 6-10

Shoulders:
Seated barbell presses 6 x 6-10
Lateral raises (standing) 6 x 6-10
Rear-delt lateral raises 5 x 6-10
Cable lateral raises 5 x 10-12

*arnold did the these exercises condensing muscle groups together and would hit each of these exercise 3 times cycle in a 6 day cycle.

Myself, ive been lifting for about 2 years and i like to split work up now as follows:

Monday - Chest
Tues - Back
Weds - Arms
Thurs - Shoulders
Fri- Chest

*legs everyday various workouts targeting a part of the leg every day(calves, hams, gluts, quads)

*forearms on monday wed fri

1-2 mile run daily

Abs everyday =)

Any alterations you all can think of? this has worked for me so just posting it, its quite intense and if youve been lifting for a few try it out and push yourself to new limits just dont overtrain !

Monday - Chest
Tues - Back
Weds - Arms
Thurs - Shoulders
Fri- Chest
Just wondered why arms are put mid way between back, chest and shoulders

John · 22-03-2005, 07:16 PM

i think Arnold,s workout looks like too much, but hey it worked for him, and on your own workout, it sounds ok but 5 days for me would be too much, but i see you say it works for you, so stick with it.

**robdog** · 22-03-2005, 07:20 PM

38 sets for chest. Mind he was the top man of his time!!! Still to much imo.

winger · 23-03-2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samurai69

Monday - Chest
Tues - Back
Weds - Arms
Thurs - Shoulders
Fri- Chest
Just wondered why arms are put mid way between back, chest and shoulders

One Smart Cookie might like all the volume, but that is a bit much.
Kinda simular to what I do actually.
Here is what I do.

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Legs
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Bicep
Saturday - Tricep

The only problem with this routine is I love triceps and sometimes my triceps are still sore for my heavy chest day. I try to hold back but it is hard.

To answer your question on the routine, tuesday is a pull, indirectly using biceps. Wednesday Arms biceps/triceps? To days in a row on the bie's?
Thursday, push day, day after I hit my tri's. Well I will be weak in military for sure.
Friday more push routines. The poor tricep muscles have been hit three days in a row..

This is just my opinoins.

samurai69 · 23-03-2005, 04:41 PM

QUOTE=winger
Here is what I do.

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Legs
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Bicep
Saturday - Tricep

AT LEAST WITH YOUR WORKOUT YOU END UP RESTING ONE DAY BETWEEN EACH TRICEP

On the routine below, tuesday is a pull, indirectly using biceps. Wednesday Arms biceps/triceps? To days in a row on the bie's?
Thursday, push day, day after I hit my tri's. Well I will be weak in military for sure.
Friday more push routines. The poor tricep muscles have been hit three days in a row..

Monday - Chest
Tues - Back
Weds - Arms
Thurs - Shoulders
Fri- Chest

COULD NOT WORK OUT THE THINKING BEHIND THREE TRICEP DAYS ON THE TROT ON THE ARNIE ROUTINE AND TWO CHEST WORKOUTS PER WEEK, BY THE TIME FRIDAY CAME ROUND MY TRICEPS WOULD BE SO CANED I COULDNT MANAGE CHEST (maybe loads of flye movements)?????

**big** · 23-03-2005, 04:52 PM

I honestly don't believe Arnie actually did that routine. He was well renowned for putting out B.S about what he did.

Even IF he followed that, I would be very surprised if many natural (or even normal dose steroid taking) trainees would do well on a routine like that.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 23-03-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

I honestly don't believe Arnie actually did that routine. He was well renowned for putting out B.S about what he did.

Even IF he followed that, I would be very surprised if many natural (or even normal dose steroid taking) trainees would do well on a routine like that.

Every body on the internet puts out bullsh!t so nothing new there.

I was natural and doing 96 sets a workout and growing and getting cut at the sametime,the only reason people "wouldnt" grow on it is simply down to improper diet and mental application.

If you beleive you will fail on something you will fail.

**big** · 23-03-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONE SMART COOKIE

Every body on the internet puts out bullsh!t so nothing new there.

I was natural and doing 96 sets a workout and growing and getting cut at the sametime,the only reason people "wouldnt" grow on it is simply down to improper diet and mental application.

If you beleive you will fail on something you will fail.

Well you know I disagree there. Some people can handle 96 sets and grow, other people can't and do FAR better on MUCH less. It's got nothing to do with mental application or diet in many cases - 96 sets, or even a fraction of that, is WAY too much for many people to succeed on.

For the people who succeed on volume training, that's great - keep doing it. But many many people just do NOT get anywhere with all that volume. And by trying to emulate these types of volume routines, all that happens is they go backwards and eventually quit out of years of frustration. Whereas if they choose a more suitable routine that they could actually recover from, they could end up with great gains in a very short period of time.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 23-03-2005, 08:41 PM

Dont forget though that the 96 sets covers 3 bodyparts and non of those sets were taken to failure.

Everybody can handle high volume training it all comes down to being trained to handle it.

Saying somebody cant handle high amounts of work is like saying a farmer 50-100yrs ago shouldnt have been able to ahndle all the heavy lifting they had to do before mechanisation,you dont think he put down tools after he got a lactic acid burn after 4 bundles of hay.cmon the body is meant to work and be working constantly.

We evolved from monkeys for goodness sake just look at them up and down trees allday constantly on the go,surely we havent come so far away from our evolutionary begining to not be able to do some extra sets.

Anyway heres a copy of a scientific paper that proves that high volume and short rest periods work.

Quote:

Takarada Y, Ishii N.

Department of Life Science, College of Arts and Science, University of Tokyo, Tokyo 153-8902, Japan. CYM06016@niftyserve.or.jp.

We investigated the effect of low-intensity resistance exercise training on muscular size and strength where the interset rest period was shortened so as to reduce the metabolite clearance. Female subjects (aged 45.4 +/- 9.5 years, n = 10) performed bilateral knee extension exercises in a seated position on an isotonic leg extension machine. The exercise sessions consisted of 3 sets of exercise at a mean intensity of approximately 50% 1RM with an interset rest period of 30 seconds and was performed twice a week for a period of 12 weeks. The strength and the cross-sectional area (CSA) of the knee extensors and flexors were examined with an isokinetic dynamometer and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), respectively. The CSAs of the knee extensors and flexors increased by 7.1 +/- 1.6% (p < 0.01, Wilcoxon signed rank test) and 2.5 +/- 1.4% (not significant), respectively. Isometric and isokinetic strengths increased significantly (p < 0.01) at all velocities examined, whereas no significant change was observed in those of knee flexors. These results indicate that a low-intensity resistance exercise with a short interset rest period is substantially effective in inducing muscular hypertrophy and concomitant increase in strength.

Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones.

Campos GE, Luecke TJ, Wendeln HK, Toma K, Hagerman FC, Murray TF, Ragg KE, Ratamess NA, Kraemer WJ, Staron RS.

Department of Biomedical Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine, Ohio University, Irvine Hall, rm 430, Athens, OH 45701, USA.

Thirty-two untrained men [mean (SD) age 22.5 (5.8) years, height 178.3 (7.2) cm, body mass 77.8 (11.9) kg] participated in an 8-week progressive resistance-training program to investigate the "strength-endurance continuum". Subjects were divided into four groups: a low repetition group (Low Rep, n = 9) performing 3-5 repetitions maximum (RM) for four sets of each exercise with 3 min rest between sets and exercises, an intermediate repetition group (Int Rep, n = 11) performing 9-11 RM for three sets with 2 min rest, a high repetition group (High Rep, n = 7) performing 20-28 RM for two sets with 1 min rest, and a non-exercising control group (Con, n = 5). Three exercises (leg press, squat, and knee extension) were performed 2 days/week for the first 4 weeks and 3 days/week for the final 4 weeks. Maximal strength [one repetition maximum, 1RM), local muscular endurance (maximal number of repetitions performed with 60% of 1RM), and various cardiorespiratory parameters (e.g., maximum oxygen consumption, pulmonary ventilation, maximal aerobic power, time to exhaustion) were assessed at the beginning and end of the study. In addition, pre- and post-training muscle biopsy samples were analyzed for fiber-type composition, cross-sectional area, myosin heavy chain (MHC) content, and capillarization. Maximal strength improved significantly more for the Low Rep group compared to the other training groups, and the maximal number of repetitions at 60% 1RM improved the most for the High Rep group. In addition, maximal aerobic power and time to exhaustion significantly increased at the end of the study for only the High Rep group. All three major fiber types (types I, IIA, and IIB) hypertrophied for the Low Rep and Int Rep groups, whereas no significant increases were demonstrated for either the High Rep or Con groups. However, the percentage of type IIB fibers decreased, with a concomitant increase in IIAB fibers for all three resistance-trained groups. These fiber-type conversions were supported by a significant decrease in MHCIIb accompanied by a significant increase in MHCIIa. No significant changes in fiber-type composition were found in the control samples. Although all three training regimens resulted in similar fiber-type transformations (IIB to IIA), the low to intermediate repetition resistance-training programs induced a greater hypertrophic effect compared to the high repetition regimen. The High Rep group, however, appeared better adapted for submaximal, prolonged contractions, with significant increases after training in aerobic power and time to exhaustion. Thus, low and intermediate RM training appears to induce similar muscular adaptations, at least after short-term training in previously untrained subjects. Overall, however, these data demonstrate that both physical performance and the associated physiological adaptations are linked to the intensity and number of repetitions performed, and thus lend support to the "strength-endurance continuum".

Muscular adaptations to combinations of high- and low-intensity resistance exercises.

Goto K, Nagasawa M, Yanagisawa O, Kizuka T, Ishii N, Takamatsu K.

Institute of Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.

Acute and long-term effects of resistance-training regimens with varied combinations of high- and low-intensity exercises were studied. Acute changes in the serum growth hormone (GH) concentration were initially measured after 3 types of regimens for knee extension exercise: a medium intensity (approximately 10 repetition maximum [RM]) short interset rest period (30 s) with progressively decreasing load ("hypertrophy type"); 5 sets of a high-intensity (90% of 1RM) and low-repetition exercise ("strength type"); and a single set of low-intensity and high-repetition exercise added immediately after the strength-type regimen ("combi-type"). Postexercise increases in serum GH concentration showed a significant regimen dependence: hypertrophy-type > combi-type > strength-type (p < 0.05, n = 8). Next, the long-term effects of periodized training protocols with the above regimens on muscular function were investigated. Male subjects (n = 16) were assigned to either hypertrophy/combi (HC) or hypertrophy/ strength (HS) groups and performed leg press and extension exercises twice a week for 10 weeks. During the first 6 weeks, both groups used the hypertrophy-type regimen to gain muscular size. During the subsequent 4 weeks, HC and HS groups performed combi-type and strength-type regimens, respectively. Muscular strength, endurance, and cross sectional area (CSA) were examined after 2, 6, and 10 weeks. After the initial 6 weeks, no significant difference was seen in the percentage changes of all variables between the groups. After the subsequent 4 weeks, however, 1RM of leg press, maximal isokinetic strength, and muscular endurance of leg extension showed significantly (p < 0.05) larger increases in the HC group than in the HS group. In addition, increases in CSA after this period also tended to be larger in the HC group than in the HS group (p = 0.08). The results suggest that a combination of high- and low-intensity regimens is effective for optimizing the strength adaptation of muscle in a periodized training program.

**big** · 23-03-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONE SMART COOKIE

Dont forget though that the 96 sets covers 3 bodyparts and non of those sets were taken to failure.

Everybody can handle high volume training it all comes down to being trained to handle it.

Saying somebody cant handle high amounts of work is like saying a farmer 50-100yrs ago shouldnt have been able to ahndle all the heavy lifting they had to do before mechanisation,you dont think he put down tools after he got a lactic acid burn after 4 bundles of hay.cmon the body is meant to work and be working constantly.

We evolved from monkeys for goodness sake just look at them up and down trees allday constantly on the go,surely we havent come so far away from our evolutionary begining to not be able to do some extra sets.

Anyway heres a copy of a scientific paper that proves that high volume and short rest periods work.

A farmer wasn't lifting hay to failure. They also didn't build anything like the muscularity that most bodybuilders are looking for (admittedly I'm sure they had fine physiques). All that shows is that lots of physical work tends to keep you lean and in shape.

Monkeys didn't climb trees to failure. Additionally, I've never seen a stacked monkey. All that shows is that monkeys are good at climbing trees.

Those scientific papers are done on untrained people, who will gain even if you had them doing swiss-ball military press once a week. All it shows is that untrained people gain muscle and lose fat when doing some training. You can find papers that show 1 set is better, and similarly you can find papers that show that 20 sets are better... all this shows is that different people respond well to different things. The vast majority of these papers are done on untrained people.

I will 100% agree with you that lots of sets not to failure DOES work... but I DO have to add "FOR SOME PEOPLE". Could it work for everyone? Maybe, if you went far enough from failure. Is it the optimal training for everyone? No, I don't believe so.

Everyone should do an experiment. Spend 8 weeks on a low volume near failure routine. Then spend 8 weeks on a high volume not to failure routine. Whichever you get the best gains from, stay on. I see no reason to have people on a set routine (whether that be my style low volume, or your style high volume) when they could be doing better on a different one.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 23-03-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

A farmer wasn't lifting hay to failure. They also didn't build anything like the muscularity that most bodybuilders are looking for (admittedly I'm sure they had fine physiques). All that shows is that lots of physical work tends to keep you lean and in shape.

Monkeys didn't climb trees to failure. Additionally, I've never seen a stacked monkey. All that shows is that monkeys are good at climbing trees.

Those scientific papers are done on untrained people, who will gain even if you had them doing swiss-ball military press once a week. All it shows is that untrained people gain muscle and lose fat when doing some training. You can find papers that show 1 set is better, and similarly you can find papers that show that 20 sets are better... all this shows is that different people respond well to different things. The vast majority of these papers are done on untrained people.

I will 100% agree with you that lots of sets not to failure DOES work... but I DO have to add "FOR SOME PEOPLE". Could it work for everyone? Maybe, if you went far enough from failure. Is it the optimal training for everyone? No, I don't believe so.

Everyone should do an experiment. Spend 8 weeks on a low volume near failure routine. Then spend 8 weeks on a high volume not to failure routine. Whichever you get the best gains from, stay on. I see no reason to have people on a set routine (whether that be my style low volume, or your style high volume) when they could be doing better on a different one.

The farmers actually would be lifting the hay all day for days on end,and were renound for their strength.

I really should have said chimp not monkey,as a chimp is that strong they have been know to rip the arm(s) of humans.

Yes it would work I`ve seen it work for everyone I have put it on with the right diet to boot.

By all means experiment but never ever stay on the same routine be it high or low volume training for extended periods of training.

Heres a pic of an oldtimer from about 1890 and these guys were known for training 6-7 times a week for 1-3 hrs aday and I gotta say he aint done bad for a volume trainer and ripped to boot.

samurai69 · 23-03-2005, 11:30 PM

Love some of these pics of old time lifting and lifters, cant remember who it was now, but one (bill pearl or similar) was an iron founder, moving heavy steel all day, same thing as the farmers.

winger · 24-03-2005, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Everyone should do an experiment. Spend 8 weeks on a low volume near failure routine. Then spend 8 weeks on a high volume not to failure routine. Whichever you get the best gains from, stay on. I see no reason to have people on a set routine (whether that be my style low volume, or your style high volume) when they could be doing better on a different one.

Why not do both?
OSC, your present routine is short like 10 minutes right?

<----------

**big** · 24-03-2005, 03:29 AM

Yes, he looks great. But so do the people who are doing low volume, high intensity:

**big** · 24-03-2005, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

Why not do both?

Simultaneously you mean? Or 8 weeks or one, then 8 weeks of the other?

If you try to do them both simultaneously, then it's not low volume at all. In fact it would be very high volume.

If you mean spend some time on one, then switch up... if that gets you gains, go for it!

But most people though seem to either progress well on low volume high intensity OR they progress well on high volume with lower intensity. It's pretty unusual for someone to be able to gain well on both - which is why you get the wide variety of differences - like Cookie pushing 96 work sets per workout, and me pushing 8 high intensity work sets per workout.

That said, some of the best programs I've seen that are worked around periodisation DO have SOME kind of volume period - but it's usually short (3-4 weeks) before a lay-off and/or a deload. One of my favourites infact, although not particularly good for hardgainers, is a 4 week volume 3x/week compound routine Bill Starr style followed by a 1 week deload and then a 6 week low volume high intensity period with much fewer sets where you're setting your PRs.

22-03-2005, 07:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
samurai69 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mid Portugal - by the sea Posts: 3,076	an OLD SCHOOL workout Borrowed off another forum, looks interesting, ondered what OSC thought as well as winger (hit) and others "oldschool routine but its worked for me so far with some minor alteration in sets and arrangment! Arnold's Routine Chest: Bench press 5 x 6-10 Flat bench flyes 5 x 6-10 Incline bench press 6 x 6-10 Cable crossovers 6 x 10-12 Dips (body weight) 5 x failure Dumbell pullovers 5 x 10-12. Back: Wide-grip chins (to front) 6 x failure T-bar rows 5 x 6-10 Seated pulley rows 6 x 6-10 One-arm dumbell rows 5 x 6-10 Straight-leg deadlifts 6 x 15 Legs: Squats 6 x 8-12 Leg press 6 x 8-12 Leg extensions 6 x 12-15 Leg curls 6 x 10-12 Barbell lunges 5 x 15 Calves: Standing calf raises 10 x 10 Seated calf raises 8 x 15 One legged calf raises (holding dumbells) 6x12 Forearms: Wrist curls (forearms on knees) - 4 sets, 10 reps Reverse barbell curls - 4 sets, 8 reps Wright roller machine - to failure Abs: ½ hour of a variety of nonspecific abdominal exercises, done virtually nonstop. Biceps: Barbell curls 6 x 6-10 Seated dumbell curls 6 x 6-10 Dumbell concentration curls 6 x 6-10 Triceps: Close-grip bench presses 6 x 6-10 Pushdowns 6 x 6-10 French press (barbell) 6 x 6-10 One-arm triceps extensions (dumbell) 6 x 6-10 Shoulders: Seated barbell presses 6 x 6-10 Lateral raises (standing) 6 x 6-10 Rear-delt lateral raises 5 x 6-10 Cable lateral raises 5 x 10-12 arnold did the these exercises condensing muscle groups together and would hit each of these exercise 3 times cycle in a 6 day cycle. Myself, ive been lifting for about 2 years and i like to split work up now as follows: Monday - Chest Tues - Back Weds - Arms Thurs - Shoulders Fri- Chest legs everyday various workouts targeting a part of the leg every day(calves, hams, gluts, quads) forearms on monday wed fri 1-2 mile run daily Abs everyday =) Any alterations you all can think of? this has worked for me so just posting it, its quite intense and if youve been lifting for a few try it out and push yourself to new limits just dont overtrain ! Monday - Chest Tues - Back Weds - Arms Thurs - Shoulders Fri- Chest Just wondered why arms are put mid way between back, chest and shoulders*

22-03-2005, 07:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
John EFBB Winner Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,245	mate im no expert but i think Arnold,s workout looks like too much, but hey it worked for him, and on your own workout, it sounds ok but 5 days for me would be too much, but i see you say it works for you, so stick with it. __________________ *“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”*

22-03-2005, 07:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
robdog UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Home!! Posts: 5,698	38 sets for chest. Mind he was the top man of his time!!! Still to much imo. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 25% off for UKM members (discount code UKM25)

23-03-2005, 04:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
samurai69 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mid Portugal - by the sea Posts: 3,076	QUOTE=winger Here is what I do. Monday - Chest Tuesday - Back Wednesday - Legs Thursday - Shoulders Friday - Bicep Saturday - Tricep AT LEAST WITH YOUR WORKOUT YOU END UP RESTING ONE DAY BETWEEN EACH TRICEP On the routine below, tuesday is a pull, indirectly using biceps. Wednesday Arms biceps/triceps? To days in a row on the bie's? Thursday, push day, day after I hit my tri's. Well I will be weak in military for sure. Friday more push routines. The poor tricep muscles have been hit three days in a row.. Monday - Chest Tues - Back Weds - Arms Thurs - Shoulders Fri- Chest COULD NOT WORK OUT THE THINKING BEHIND THREE TRICEP DAYS ON THE TROT ON THE ARNIE ROUTINE AND TWO CHEST WORKOUTS PER WEEK, BY THE TIME FRIDAY CAME ROUND MY TRICEPS WOULD BE SO CANED I COULDNT MANAGE CHEST (maybe loads of flye movements)?????

23-03-2005, 04:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,416	I honestly don't believe Arnie actually did that routine. He was well renowned for putting out B.S about what he did. Even IF he followed that, I would be very surprised if many natural (or even normal dose steroid taking) trainees would do well on a routine like that.

23-03-2005, 11:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
samurai69 Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mid Portugal - by the sea Posts: 3,076	Love some of these pics of old time lifting and lifters, cant remember who it was now, but one (bill pearl or similar) was an iron founder, moving heavy steel all day, same thing as the farmers.