Routine advice. - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

JawD · 17-09-2004, 09:21 AM

Firstly, I apologise for the duplicate post. I have this in the beginner forum with no replies and, thinking it had been overlooked, thought it might be better suited in this one!

------------------------

I'm 6ft, 87kg (191lb) with around 15% BF according to the calipers! I'm giving myself a year to ideally get down to around 10% BF, but really I just want rid of the gut & handles! Ideally, when doing this I'd like to firm up and add some bulk if I can though I realise this can be difficult when trying to shed fat. Anyway, this is what Ive started doing, all input is much appreciated:-

Mon = Day 1 Resistance see below
Tue = 5 Mile Bike
Wed = Day 2 Resistance see below
Thu = 5 Mile Bike
Fri = rest
Sat = Day 3 Resistance see below
Sun = 5 Mile Bike (or sat if cant sun)

Nutrition

I'm eating around 2300 cals per day. This is usually around 30% P / 50% C / 20% F

I aim to eat around 1g of Protien per lean bodymass lb / day. So at the moment my LBM is around 191lb - 15% = 162lb. So thats 162g Protein = 648 cals = 28% of 2300 daily cals.

I eat 6 meals per day and try and make meal 6 with no carbs.

Routine

I will do each day as shown below. The sets will be mostly 4-6 reps with the 6th rep being positive failure. As I can reach it ok, up goes the weight until I can "just" reach 4 reps. I do this until I can get to 6 ok again. 2 Mins rest between each set. 3 Day split as follows. Note, I workout in my garage at home using Dumbells, Barbells and a smith machine.

Day 1

Squats 3 x 4-6 / SL Deadlift 3 x 4-6 / Calf Raise 3 x 6-8
Dumbell Press 3 x 4-6 / Dumbell Lateral Raise 3 x 4-6

Day 2

Bent Over Row 2 x 4-6 / Wide Grip Pull Down 2 x 4-6 / Close Grip Pulldown 2 x 4-6
Cable Row 2 x 4-6 / Shrugs 2 x 4-6
Barbell Curls 3 x 4-6 / Hammer Curls 3 x 4-6 / Wrist Curl 2 x 4-6

Day 3

Incline Bench 3 x 4-6 / Decline Bench 3 x 4-6 / Dumbell Press 3 x 4-6
Tricep Pushdown 2 x 4-6 / Overhead DB Press 2 x 4-6 / Kickbacks 2 x 4-6

On three other days in the AM I will be doing cardio. I do my gym training PM after work.

I will do this for 4 weeks then I will keep the same but swap some routines. Then do for another 4 weeks and have the 9th week off.

powerU · 17-09-2004, 09:54 AM

Looks pretty much there - personally I'd add in Deadlifts on your back day, and on chest day ditch your decline bench and put in some dips.

I reckon you're gonna drop some weight also with your diet, depends what you want though.

Do you have a PWO drink? If so you could sneak some simple carbs in there to up your calories for the day, these shouldn't affect BF.

JawD · 17-09-2004, 11:30 AM

Cheers PowerU. By drop weight do you mean muscle or overall? My aim is to burn fat while maintaining or ideally building on if I can muscle. I realise I cant really do both, though some say it is possible if done right!

I hear what you are saying about dips. I cant do them at the moment as I train in my garage at home. I need to address that though, get something put up without pulling my house down! Anything else you would suggest replacing the decline bench with in the meantime?

Regarding the drink, I have ON Whey with skimmed milk with my breakfast and then again either before bed, or right after I train depending on the day. ON Whey though (Optimum Nutrition - Vanilla - Yum!) - is very low in carbs.

The reason for keeping the cals down to 2300 is for fat burning. Do you think it is worth adding to this drink, boosting the cals. If so, would this not make is harder to burn the fat with more "fuel" needing to be burned?

powerU · 17-09-2004, 01:04 PM

It's very important to take in simple carbs immediatly after you train, it helps stop your body going into a catabolic state (lose muscle), try adding 50-60g of glucose powder to your whey, and personally I'd mix this with water as milk will slow down your protein absorption when your muscles are crying out for it after a workout.

As for the calories, everyone is different, the good thing is you've taken the time to work out your intake now, use this as a starting point and listen to your body, if you lose too much weight, up the carbs and viseversa.

re chest workout, try starting with some flys to pre-exhaust the pecs (these won't tire your triceps), then just stick with flat bench and incline dumbells.

Looking good mate - stick with it.

JawD · 17-09-2004, 03:02 PM

Got it. Great stuff - much appreciated. I'll amend the chest as you say. Using water is no prob and I'll nip to the health shop for glucose. Would you say glucose would be "the" best option, or what about fruit etc?

Mr T · 17-09-2004, 10:21 PM

i would leave the glucose out personally if i was trying to loose weight mate.thats just me, i cant see the point in dieting then gulping down 60gms of simple sugar..

JawD · 18-09-2004, 08:54 AM

Hmm. This is the whole problem I tink. Different opinions! I can understand both arguements! I think (not sure though) that by adding the simple sugar, it would help carry the protien or at least amino acids? to the muscle where its needed? I know thats the case with creatine anyway. But the PWO simple sugar helps in recovery anyway.
However, I'm trying to shed the fat, so gulping more simple sugar will go against what I'm trying to achieve.

Any other thoughts here?

I appreciate both views though so cheers.

winger · 18-09-2004, 06:37 PM

30% P / 50% C / 20% F
I like 40% carb, 30% protein and 30% fat. You could actually run a little bit higher protein like a pwo shake and before bedtime. I am going to have to agree with Mr. T and avoid the simple sugars. They spike insulin. They are just empty calories that your body dosn't need. Workout looks good.

JawD · 19-09-2004, 09:46 AM

Cheers, Ive since made the odd tweak to the routine but nothing major. I'm going to tinker with the nutrients over a couple of weeks. My aim will be to add more real protien like chicken breast instead of processed slices, add good fats like nuts to my yoghurt. Add some flax seed oil to my tuna and/or pro shake. Swap bran flakes for natural oats (done that this morning), use water instead of skimmed milk for my pro shake. I think I'll leave the sugar out of my pro shake for now and see how I go. These changes shouldnt change my colorie intake, will up my fat a little so I just need to look to cut back on carbs a bit. Also, during the day I eat 1 pear, 1 apple, 2 carrot, which are all high GI I think. I might cut down to one peice of fruit and try and change to lower GI stuff where I can. Still need to look into this though.

I think these changes are all in the right direction. Thanks for the input, more is always welcome!

Mr T · 19-09-2004, 11:13 AM

good stuff mate, plenty of fruit and veg is needed mate,

17-09-2004, 09:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 708 Blog Entries: 37	Routine advice. Firstly, I apologise for the duplicate post. I have this in the beginner forum with no replies and, thinking it had been overlooked, thought it might be better suited in this one! ------------------------ I'm 6ft, 87kg (191lb) with around 15% BF according to the calipers! I'm giving myself a year to ideally get down to around 10% BF, but really I just want rid of the gut & handles! Ideally, when doing this I'd like to firm up and add some bulk if I can though I realise this can be difficult when trying to shed fat. Anyway, this is what Ive started doing, all input is much appreciated:- Mon = Day 1 Resistance see below Tue = 5 Mile Bike Wed = Day 2 Resistance see below Thu = 5 Mile Bike Fri = rest Sat = Day 3 Resistance see below Sun = 5 Mile Bike (or sat if cant sun) Nutrition I'm eating around 2300 cals per day. This is usually around 30% P / 50% C / 20% F I aim to eat around 1g of Protien per lean bodymass lb / day. So at the moment my LBM is around 191lb - 15% = 162lb. So thats 162g Protein = 648 cals = 28% of 2300 daily cals. I eat 6 meals per day and try and make meal 6 with no carbs. Routine I will do each day as shown below. The sets will be mostly 4-6 reps with the 6th rep being positive failure. As I can reach it ok, up goes the weight until I can "just" reach 4 reps. I do this until I can get to 6 ok again. 2 Mins rest between each set. 3 Day split as follows. Note, I workout in my garage at home using Dumbells, Barbells and a smith machine. Day 1 Squats 3 x 4-6 / SL Deadlift 3 x 4-6 / Calf Raise 3 x 6-8 Dumbell Press 3 x 4-6 / Dumbell Lateral Raise 3 x 4-6 Day 2 Bent Over Row 2 x 4-6 / Wide Grip Pull Down 2 x 4-6 / Close Grip Pulldown 2 x 4-6 Cable Row 2 x 4-6 / Shrugs 2 x 4-6 Barbell Curls 3 x 4-6 / Hammer Curls 3 x 4-6 / Wrist Curl 2 x 4-6 Day 3 Incline Bench 3 x 4-6 / Decline Bench 3 x 4-6 / Dumbell Press 3 x 4-6 Tricep Pushdown 2 x 4-6 / Overhead DB Press 2 x 4-6 / Kickbacks 2 x 4-6 On three other days in the AM I will be doing cardio. I do my gym training PM after work. I will do this for 4 weeks then I will keep the same but swap some routines. Then do for another 4 weeks and have the 9th week off. __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2004, 11:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 708 Blog Entries: 37	Cheers PowerU. By drop weight do you mean muscle or overall? My aim is to burn fat while maintaining or ideally building on if I can muscle. I realise I cant really do both, though some say it is possible if done right! I hear what you are saying about dips. I cant do them at the moment as I train in my garage at home. I need to address that though, get something put up without pulling my house down! Anything else you would suggest replacing the decline bench with in the meantime? Regarding the drink, I have ON Whey with skimmed milk with my breakfast and then again either before bed, or right after I train depending on the day. ON Whey though (Optimum Nutrition - Vanilla - Yum!) - is very low in carbs. The reason for keeping the cals down to 2300 is for fat burning. Do you think it is worth adding to this drink, boosting the cals. If so, would this not make is harder to burn the fat with more "fuel" needing to be burned? __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2004, 03:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 708 Blog Entries: 37	Got it. Great stuff - much appreciated. I'll amend the chest as you say. Using water is no prob and I'll nip to the health shop for glucose. Would you say glucose would be "the" best option, or what about fruit etc? __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2004, 10:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr T Looking Freaky Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 709	i would leave the glucose out personally if i was trying to loose weight mate.thats just me, i cant see the point in dieting then gulping down 60gms of simple sugar.. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

18-09-2004, 08:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 708 Blog Entries: 37	Hmm. This is the whole problem I tink. Different opinions! I can understand both arguements! I think (not sure though) that by adding the simple sugar, it would help carry the protien or at least amino acids? to the muscle where its needed? I know thats the case with creatine anyway. But the PWO simple sugar helps in recovery anyway. However, I'm trying to shed the fat, so gulping more simple sugar will go against what I'm trying to achieve. Any other thoughts here? I appreciate both views though so cheers. __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2004, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,140	Looks pretty much there - personally I'd add in Deadlifts on your back day, and on chest day ditch your decline bench and put in some dips. I reckon you're gonna drop some weight also with your diet, depends what you want though. Do you have a PWO drink? If so you could sneak some simple carbs in there to up your calories for the day, these shouldn't affect BF.

17-09-2004, 01:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,140	It's very important to take in simple carbs immediatly after you train, it helps stop your body going into a catabolic state (lose muscle), try adding 50-60g of glucose powder to your whey, and personally I'd mix this with water as milk will slow down your protein absorption when your muscles are crying out for it after a workout. As for the calories, everyone is different, the good thing is you've taken the time to work out your intake now, use this as a starting point and listen to your body, if you lose too much weight, up the carbs and viseversa. re chest workout, try starting with some flys to pre-exhaust the pecs (these won't tire your triceps), then just stick with flat bench and incline dumbells. Looking good mate - stick with it.

18-09-2004, 06:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,260 Blog Entries: 1	30% P / 50% C / 20% F I like 40% carb, 30% protein and 30% fat. You could actually run a little bit higher protein like a pwo shake and before bedtime. I am going to have to agree with Mr. T and avoid the simple sugars. They spike insulin. They are just empty calories that your body dosn't need. Workout looks good. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-09-2004, 09:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
JawD Still on the first step - its huge! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lanchester Posts: 708 Blog Entries: 37	Cheers, Ive since made the odd tweak to the routine but nothing major. I'm going to tinker with the nutrients over a couple of weeks. My aim will be to add more real protien like chicken breast instead of processed slices, add good fats like nuts to my yoghurt. Add some flax seed oil to my tuna and/or pro shake. Swap bran flakes for natural oats (done that this morning), use water instead of skimmed milk for my pro shake. I think I'll leave the sugar out of my pro shake for now and see how I go. These changes shouldnt change my colorie intake, will up my fat a little so I just need to look to cut back on carbs a bit. Also, during the day I eat 1 pear, 1 apple, 2 carrot, which are all high GI I think. I might cut down to one peice of fruit and try and change to lower GI stuff where I can. Still need to look into this though. I think these changes are all in the right direction. Thanks for the input, more is always welcome! __________________ Failure isnt falling down - Failure is not getting back up To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-09-2004, 11:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mr T Looking Freaky Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 709	good stuff mate, plenty of fruit and veg is needed mate, __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.