corbuk

1.Is this bill starr 5 x 5 routine ,and if so is it good?
2.what does teh assistance bit mean on the routine?
3.and what does use the wieght from teh 3rd set for a final set of 8 ?
4.the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set ?

im confused alot about how to do this program :(



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Exercise	Sets x Reps	Details
	Monday
Squat	5x5	Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench	5x5	Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row	5x5	Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups
	Wednesday
Squat	4x5	First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military	4x5	Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift	4x5	Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups
	Friday
Squat	4x5, 1x3, 1x8	First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench	4x5, 1x3, 1x8	First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row	4x5, 1x3, 1x8	First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

flapjack

Not sure if this is Bill Starrs 5x5 but it will build some serious mass and strength with the right diet.

If you are only just starting out lifting weights it may kill you.

As said looks an excellent workout though

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chrisj22

Yes mate, it's called 'Madcow' by Bill Starr. I absolutely loved that routine - my strength went up something chronic for me. I was at a sticking point & decided to give this a try.

In answer to your questions;

1. lol, I've already told you it's a Bill Starr routine, lol

2. The assistance bit means do that at the end of the session. So, on Monday, do the 2 sets of hypers & 4 sets of weighted sit ups at the end of your sesh.

3. If your doing Friday's routine, it means you do 4x5 with the same weight as Monday, the triple is a 2.5% increase on your top set of 5 what you did on Monday. I.e if your final set of squats on Monday was 100kg for 5 reps, on friday's sesh you need to add 2.5% to your 1x3 (so it'd be 102.5kg), do you see what I mean? So for you final set of 8 on friday you take the weight you squatted in your third set of 5 from the previous Monday. It's making you add weight/reps without you really thinking about it.

4. Whatever weight you use for your 3rd set, use it for your fourth, too. I.e. you do Monday's squat for 5 reps, & 5sets - on weds squats you use exactly the same weight for the same amount of sets until the last set where you use the same weight as you do for the set before. So, I.e Monday squats; set 1 - 50kg, set 2- 60kg, set 3 - 70kg, set 4 - 80kg, set 5 - 90kg. On weds you'd do; set 1 - 50kg, set 2 - 60kg, set 3 - 70kg, set 4 - 70kg again - understand?

It's a very taxing programme, but if you have good recovery powers you'll love it. I lasted about 6 weeks (if that) & I became exhausted, but I've got poor recovery powers. It's great for beginners if you can recover. Just eat big mate.

enjoy

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corbuk

Thank you , your a great help
Cant wait to start this on Monday.

corbuk

How much should I increase weight by on sets till I get to my max 5 x 5 ?

chrisj22

Just follow the program mate. It say's 2.5%, but that may become too much when your near you maximum. If you can get hold of some 1kg plates, or even 0.5kg plates, that's progress in itself.

I think my problem was that at the time I didn't have an fractional plates & the smallest plates in my gym are 2.5kg, so I was having to increase by 5% each week. I now have fractional plates so I'll give that routine a go in the future.

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corbuk

Thanks again.

irwit

thats a monster routine, looks brilliant! I spend all week dreading squats so I guess it would be a good way to kind of face that fear head on. I woudnt fancy deads of bench after squats though.

Troy McClure

your body will adapt and get used to it.

lostweekend

This is a really, really good routine. I've been training for 15 years and have tried most of the stuff that's out there - but my strength gains on this one astounded me! did it for 3 months I added around 20% to my major lifts

One word of advice though - don't try to hit your maxs on the first week! Start conservatively and aim to be near your maxs by the 3rd or 4th week. That way you get some 'momentum' and get accustomed to this style of training.

Have you been to Madcow's geocities site? He has some very useful additional information on there.

As commented above, you do adapt and get used to it. I never had any problems with bench after squat, but the first 2 weeks of deadlifts after squats was the most painful experience I've ever had in the gym

And if you dread squats you will soon get to like them when you do them 3 times a week!

chrisj22

'Lostweekend', I completely agree. It's a great routine, but I think it needs to be pointed out that it's not for people with poor recovery powers, like me.

It crippled me, but I didn't have the fractional plates at the time & the 5% increase I was trying to do each week was completely doing me in.

I might go back to it in the future, but my legs are more advanced than any other bodypart so they overtake everything else on this routine. If anyone's squatting needs improving, this is the routine. :biggrin:

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lostweekend

Yes, I certainly found that on occasions I was teetering on the edge of being burnt out. I find this is always a potential problem with full body routines and I have to be very strict to avoid the "Oh, I'll just add in an extra exercise" syndrome. When I did this variation I was eating well which helped me stay on top of the routine.

I also suffered from lack of fractional plates, so when I was approaching my maxs I either didn't increment the weight or incremented and accepted that I may miss the target on the last set by a rep. I found that with this approach in the last 8 weeks I was typically incrementing up only 1/2 the exercises each week, but the next week I was able to increment the ones that hadn't moved (or hit the target on those that fell short the previous week). By being conservative I avoided the burn out and exceeded all my pbs by far.

TBH it was such a delicate balance that I find the dual factor programs (alternating load and deload/intensity periods) easier to follow as they're a bit more prescriptive - although less superior in terms of results!

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3rep PBs (targets for June) in Kgs
Squat: 175 (180) | Bench: 137.75 (140) | Dead: 215 (220) | Military: 80 (80)
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pitprop

thanks for finally explaining 5x5 training. Gonna give it a go - bored of 4 day split and push/pull routines - cheers

Stanco

Hey, i did bill stars 5x5 for about 10 weeks and gained a heap of strength and some good muscle. My squat improved by 25 kg's by the end of it.

fozyspilgrims

Thinking about doing this but there isn't much for back and bi's.

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