Hypertrophy effectiveness? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Killerkeane · 07-07-2004, 11:28 PM

I have been scouring the internet for a week now, and a lot of what seems expericenced dedicated bodybuilders have just now seen the results they were expecting or anywhere close.
I have 9 weeks off now, and really want to make a go of it. I am just weary of doing this cycle, and seeing minimilistic gains at the end of it.

I understand the science, research and results behind Hancock and his hypertrophy methods but has anybody actually done a cycle using this method, and what real results did they achieve?

**hackskii** · 08-07-2004, 12:12 AM

Not me!
It takes time to figure out if you are overtraining, undertraining, training right.
I think everyone is diffrent with diffrent goals, diffrent genetics, diffrent ages, diffrent diets, diffrent jobs with diffrent stress levels, diffrent sleep paterns, diffrent addictions, diffrent focus, diffrent types of muscle fibers and diffrent attitudes.
No one single thing can fit into all.
Trial and error I say. I have been lifting for 28 years and have not nailed it down to specifics. Look at my scare?
Some guys can take twice the amounts of gear and be fine. Some guys can take half the gear and gain twice as much muscle.

We are all diffrent and this all will take time no matter who is doing it.
Just relax and enjoy your learning and lifting experiances. It is a fun ride and you can decide.
No one is failing as long as they are trying. There will be a learning curve here no matter who you are.
Pick everyones brain and use what works for you. All else keep in the back for knowledge or toss it.

Dont get too frusterated for not knowing things or not having all the answers, this will come in time, trust me on this.

Mens muscles mature for strength at about 30-35. You are young and will be ok with some patience.

Sychokid · 08-07-2004, 12:59 AM

KK, please check the HST forums, there is a huge 20 page result thread, all the results are positives except for those who did the program wrong.

Also check the bodybuilding.com forums in the journal section, many many people are doing it there

Jon

winger · 08-07-2004, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sychokid

KK, please check the HST forums, there is a huge 20 page result thread, all the results are positives except for those who did the program wrong.

Also check the bodybuilding.com forums in the journal section, many many people are doing it there

Jon

I would try this. If it dosn't work then all you are out is some time.

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 11:48 AM

i have checked the entire site relentlessly, you are right sychokid there are many plus. But a lot of what seems to be experienced bodybuilders to know the importance of diet and form etc etc are still getting marginal gains.
Now i guess it comes back to what Hackskii said and what Winger said. It works for some, but you will never know until you try it?

I have 9 weeks off now, still working night shifts but thats no problem, but i want to hit my body very hard and get some good gains, it would just be a shame to change my routine and not get as much gains.

stuff it, ill give it a shot and do everything properly. we will soon see the results in 8 weeks time if anything happens, and ill post a piccy.

winger · 08-07-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killerkeane

i have checked the entire site relentlessly, you are right sychokid there are many plus. But a lot of what seems to be experienced bodybuilders to know the importance of diet and form etc etc are still getting marginal gains.
Now i guess it comes back to what Hackskii said and what Winger said. It works for some, but you will never know until you try it?

I have 9 weeks off now, still working night shifts but thats no problem, but i want to hit my body very hard and get some good gains, it would just be a shame to change my routine and not get as much gains.

stuff it, ill give it a shot and do everything properly. we will soon see the results in 8 weeks time if anything happens, and ill post a piccy.

There ya go. If you are making strong gains now then I wouldn't do it. If you are flat on your routine and need a change then go for it.

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 04:07 PM

what if i hammered the gym 5 days a week for 8 weeks doing the conventional individual mucle group every workout?

IM CONFUSED ARGGGGGG

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 04:08 PM

i told you i was going cold turkey cas i cant go down the gym for another 4 days.

powerU · 08-07-2004, 04:10 PM

what split do you train at the minute KK?

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 04:16 PM

i do 3 day split hitting chest+tri on monday
back+bi wednesday
legs+calve friday

but i need to rest for 12 days before beginning the hypertrophy, if i am going to do it all, im just too confused at the mo

powerU · 08-07-2004, 04:31 PM

here's my idea then - you've got the time by the sound of things so why not change to a 4 day split same as mine - I was far smaller than you at your age, in fact till i was abiut 26!
I've only really packed it on using my 4 day weeks which I started last November, going from 12.6 to 15 stone in just under 5 months, I've since cut down to around 14.
I train similar to what you do at the mo but have an extra day for shoulders/traps (i prefer to train traps before back in my week coz i hammer them with deads on back day).
So:
Mon: Shoulder/traps
Tue: Back/Bis
Wed: rest
Thurs: Chest/tris
Fri: Legs

Keep it dead simple, no fancy isolation rubbish, stick to Squats, Deads, Bench, Military press, Rows, Close grip bench for tris and DO NOT spend more than 4 sets training Biceps - otherwise I'll call you a fairy!!

Sounds like you know pretty much what you should eat - PWO consider getting Reflex Instant Mass though - it wipes the floor with everything else.
Just keep it simple mate, after about 3 weeks on that just mess about for a week - spend a day doing clean and jerks till you fall over, or breathing squats.

Above all - stick to it and enjoy it.
Oh, forget one rep max rubbish as well, if you can't move the weight at least 5 times, forget it, it's too heavy - don't worry what anyone else thinks. I was training rear delts with a 4kg dumbell on Monday, but I bet theres only a couple of people in my gym who can lift more on a deadlift!

winger · 08-07-2004, 05:14 PM

I like it push pull

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 05:24 PM

yeah, good advice there poweru
I think my diet is fundamentally perfect, i aim for 5000 calories but usually get to about 4000, eat 2g protein per lb of bodyweight. I cut the fat out, rely solely on good nutritious food. So my diet is good, thats no worries.

As far as my routine goes, i think the conventional 3/4 day split is perfect concentrating on compound exercises. I dont really know why i am condisering hypertrophy as i am making steady progress as it is anyway. i am considering doing my first cycle of d-bol, but people are advising me not too. Theres no real hurry for me to get into that anyway as yet, im quite happy to plot along naturally for the mo
I think the 4 day split will do at the moment, with 4000-4500 calories a day i should have no problem really.

I take the USN weight gain powder, this is really good seen some good results with this within the first couple of weeks, NOT cheap tho!
http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/pr...?idproduct=296

what about this for a routine?

Monday ( Chest+Tricep)
5 sets bench
5 sets Incline
4 sets dumbell work
3 sets flies

4 sets tricep pushdowns
4 sets dumbell kickbacks
2 sets dips

Tueday(Back+Biceps)
5 sets deadlifts
5 sets close grip pulldowns
5 sets lat pulldowns
3 sets Cable Rows

3 sets barbell curls
3 sets rope curls
3 sets dumbell concentration curls

Wednesday (Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING
5 sets squats
5 sets leg press
4 sets leg ext
4 sets leg curls

8 sets standing calve raise

5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING)
5 sets lateral raises
5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals
6 sets shrugs

Thursday (Chest+Tricep)
5 sets bench
5 sets Incline
4 sets dumbell work
3 sets flies

4 sets tricep pushdowns
4 sets dumbell kickbacks
2 sets dips

Friday (Back+Biceps)
5 sets deadlifts
5 sets close grip pulldowns
5 sets lat pulldowns
3 sets Cable Rows

3 sets barbell curls
3 sets rope curls
3 sets dumbell concentration curls

Saturday(Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING
5 sets squats
5 sets leg press
4 sets leg ext
4 sets leg curls

8 sets standing calve raise

5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING)
5 sets lateral raises
5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals
6 sets shrugs

Sunday (Rest DAY)

Bit heavy do you think? Risk of overtraining?

Killerkeane · 08-07-2004, 05:26 PM

O my god that is overtraining looking back on it

i shouldnt of posted this, im gonna get flamed :(

powerU · 08-07-2004, 05:42 PM

try cutting all that in half mate, how about
Mon: 3 sets MP, superset 3x lat raises with upright rows, 3 sets rear flys (light), 3 sets heavy shrugs.
Tue: 5xDeads, superset 3xwide pullup with 3 lat pulldown (light), 3x heavy bent over rows, 2 x barbell curls, 2 x hammer curls (sat down)
Thurs: 3 x heavy bench, 3 x incline dumbell, 3 x dips, superset 3 x close grip bench with 3 x skullcrush
Fri: 5 x squats, 3 x leg curl, 3 x leg ext, 3 x calf raise

That's it - if you can do more than that, you're not putting in enough effort.

I'm off to train chest now!

07-07-2004, 11:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	Hypertrophy effectiveness? I have been scouring the internet for a week now, and a lot of what seems expericenced dedicated bodybuilders have just now seen the results they were expecting or anywhere close. I have 9 weeks off now, and really want to make a go of it. I am just weary of doing this cycle, and seeing minimilistic gains at the end of it. I understand the science, research and results behind Hancock and his hypertrophy methods but has anybody actually done a cycle using this method, and what real results did they achieve? __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 12:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,748	Not me! It takes time to figure out if you are overtraining, undertraining, training right. I think everyone is diffrent with diffrent goals, diffrent genetics, diffrent ages, diffrent diets, diffrent jobs with diffrent stress levels, diffrent sleep paterns, diffrent addictions, diffrent focus, diffrent types of muscle fibers and diffrent attitudes. No one single thing can fit into all. Trial and error I say. I have been lifting for 28 years and have not nailed it down to specifics. Look at my scare? Some guys can take twice the amounts of gear and be fine. Some guys can take half the gear and gain twice as much muscle. We are all diffrent and this all will take time no matter who is doing it. Just relax and enjoy your learning and lifting experiances. It is a fun ride and you can decide. No one is failing as long as they are trying. There will be a learning curve here no matter who you are. Pick everyones brain and use what works for you. All else keep in the back for knowledge or toss it. Dont get too frusterated for not knowing things or not having all the answers, this will come in time, trust me on this. Mens muscles mature for strength at about 30-35. You are young and will be ok with some patience. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 08-07-2004 at 12:14 AM.

08-07-2004, 11:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	i have checked the entire site relentlessly, you are right sychokid there are many plus. But a lot of what seems to be experienced bodybuilders to know the importance of diet and form etc etc are still getting marginal gains. Now i guess it comes back to what Hackskii said and what Winger said. It works for some, but you will never know until you try it? I have 9 weeks off now, still working night shifts but thats no problem, but i want to hit my body very hard and get some good gains, it would just be a shame to change my routine and not get as much gains. stuff it, ill give it a shot and do everything properly. we will soon see the results in 8 weeks time if anything happens, and ill post a piccy. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 04:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	what if i hammered the gym 5 days a week for 8 weeks doing the conventional individual mucle group every workout? IM CONFUSED ARGGGGGG __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 04:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	i told you i was going cold turkey cas i cant go down the gym for another 4 days. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 12:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sychokid Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 55	KK, please check the HST forums, there is a huge 20 page result thread, all the results are positives except for those who did the program wrong. Also check the bodybuilding.com forums in the journal section, many many people are doing it there Jon

08-07-2004, 04:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,141	what split do you train at the minute KK?

08-07-2004, 04:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	i do 3 day split hitting chest+tri on monday back+bi wednesday legs+calve friday but i need to rest for 12 days before beginning the hypertrophy, if i am going to do it all, im just too confused at the mo __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 04:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,141	here's my idea then - you've got the time by the sound of things so why not change to a 4 day split same as mine - I was far smaller than you at your age, in fact till i was abiut 26! I've only really packed it on using my 4 day weeks which I started last November, going from 12.6 to 15 stone in just under 5 months, I've since cut down to around 14. I train similar to what you do at the mo but have an extra day for shoulders/traps (i prefer to train traps before back in my week coz i hammer them with deads on back day). So: Mon: Shoulder/traps Tue: Back/Bis Wed: rest Thurs: Chest/tris Fri: Legs Keep it dead simple, no fancy isolation rubbish, stick to Squats, Deads, Bench, Military press, Rows, Close grip bench for tris and DO NOT spend more than 4 sets training Biceps - otherwise I'll call you a fairy!! Sounds like you know pretty much what you should eat - PWO consider getting Reflex Instant Mass though - it wipes the floor with everything else. Just keep it simple mate, after about 3 weeks on that just mess about for a week - spend a day doing clean and jerks till you fall over, or breathing squats. Above all - stick to it and enjoy it. Oh, forget one rep max rubbish as well, if you can't move the weight at least 5 times, forget it, it's too heavy - don't worry what anyone else thinks. I was training rear delts with a 4kg dumbell on Monday, but I bet theres only a couple of people in my gym who can lift more on a deadlift!

08-07-2004, 05:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,334 Blog Entries: 1	I like it push pull __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-07-2004, 05:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	yeah, good advice there poweru I think my diet is fundamentally perfect, i aim for 5000 calories but usually get to about 4000, eat 2g protein per lb of bodyweight. I cut the fat out, rely solely on good nutritious food. So my diet is good, thats no worries. As far as my routine goes, i think the conventional 3/4 day split is perfect concentrating on compound exercises. I dont really know why i am condisering hypertrophy as i am making steady progress as it is anyway. i am considering doing my first cycle of d-bol, but people are advising me not too. Theres no real hurry for me to get into that anyway as yet, im quite happy to plot along naturally for the mo I think the 4 day split will do at the moment, with 4000-4500 calories a day i should have no problem really. I take the USN weight gain powder, this is really good seen some good results with this within the first couple of weeks, NOT cheap tho! http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/pr...?idproduct=296 what about this for a routine? Monday ( Chest+Tricep) 5 sets bench 5 sets Incline 4 sets dumbell work 3 sets flies 4 sets tricep pushdowns 4 sets dumbell kickbacks 2 sets dips Tueday(Back+Biceps) 5 sets deadlifts 5 sets close grip pulldowns 5 sets lat pulldowns 3 sets Cable Rows 3 sets barbell curls 3 sets rope curls 3 sets dumbell concentration curls Wednesday (Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING 5 sets squats 5 sets leg press 4 sets leg ext 4 sets leg curls 8 sets standing calve raise 5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING) 5 sets lateral raises 5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals 6 sets shrugs Thursday (Chest+Tricep) 5 sets bench 5 sets Incline 4 sets dumbell work 3 sets flies 4 sets tricep pushdowns 4 sets dumbell kickbacks 2 sets dips Friday (Back+Biceps) 5 sets deadlifts 5 sets close grip pulldowns 5 sets lat pulldowns 3 sets Cable Rows 3 sets barbell curls 3 sets rope curls 3 sets dumbell concentration curls Saturday(Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING 5 sets squats 5 sets leg press 4 sets leg ext 4 sets leg curls 8 sets standing calve raise 5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING) 5 sets lateral raises 5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals 6 sets shrugs Sunday (Rest DAY) Bit heavy do you think? Risk of overtraining? __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 05:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	O my god that is overtraining looking back on it i shouldnt of posted this, im gonna get flamed :( __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

08-07-2004, 05:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,141	try cutting all that in half mate, how about Mon: 3 sets MP, superset 3x lat raises with upright rows, 3 sets rear flys (light), 3 sets heavy shrugs. Tue: 5xDeads, superset 3xwide pullup with 3 lat pulldown (light), 3x heavy bent over rows, 2 x barbell curls, 2 x hammer curls (sat down) Thurs: 3 x heavy bench, 3 x incline dumbell, 3 x dips, superset 3 x close grip bench with 3 x skullcrush Fri: 5 x squats, 3 x leg curl, 3 x leg ext, 3 x calf raise That's it - if you can do more than that, you're not putting in enough effort. I'm off to train chest now!