Training based upon SCIENCE! - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Sychokid · 30-06-2004, 03:48 AM

Most training programs you see have little to no scientific support or studies backing them up. They are merely based on other people expereinces, which is bad thing to go by for numerous of reasons (genetics, steriods, diet, recovery periods, etc).

For about 3 years now, I started researching the human body, muscle anatomy, exercise and its effects on the body, etc. From this I gathered that what most bodybuilders don't know is that the sport of bodybuilding thoroughly believes in the single factor theory, while all other weightlifting sports (powerlifting, olympic lifting, strongmen, sport athletes, etc) use periodization. The reason that bodybuilding still accepts the single factor theory is for 3 reasons:

1. it works
2. most people don't know about periodization
3. this method has been used for generations, people follow and do what other bodybuilders do, not knowing there "anabolicaly enhanced" or have better genetics.

So we realize that this single factor theory (basically to keep this post breif, the single factor theory is probably what your training with. Its based on the "supercompensation theory" and you basically train once a week or whenever you feel you have recovered, to failure, moderate volume, etc) works, its just that there are superior methods of training out there (PERIODIZATION!)

In short, periodization is a VERY broad term, its just basically organizing your training better to fit your goals (this is a very very generalized statement). There are many many many many ways of going about periodization, and this all depends on your goals. Being that this is a bodybuilding forum, and I dont want to confuse anyone just yet, I shall post programs based on periodization that are mainstream and apply to hypertrophy and strength.

Depending on how interested you guys are, I can write future posts relating to periodization. I tried to explain this as basic as I can. There are so many periodization methods out there (dual factor theory, linear periodization, conjugate periodization, cybernetic periodization, pendulam training, just to name a few) and for now since it would literally take hundreds of posts to fully explain different periodization methods, I will provide you with ones I feel are important to what we are talking about now. Just for the record, periodization methods have been used for DECADES now, and have so many studies, books, athletes, and everything else supporting it. Whats so great about periodization is that it goes against everything we do as bodybuilders. They RARELY train to failure, train each muscle as FREQUENTLY as possible, use alot of volume, etc (these all will vary based on your goals and the type of periodization used). So now what you guys have been waiting for:

Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST):
www.hypertrophy-specific.com
This is a form of periodization with a linear approach (decreasing reps/volume while increasing weight over time). The program is split into 4 mesocycles and takes 8 weeks to fully accomplish. This is one of the greatest programs out there if mass is your goal. Since most of the info can be found at the link, here is basically a short summary. When you train, you apply microtrauma (from mechanical loading) to the muscle, this is from the eccentric (negative) portion of the exercise and is essential for hypertrophy (muscle growth) to take place. When a muscle is exposed to a high mechanical load (really heavy weights), the microtruama is really high, and as you know, its really hard to progressive load when your already training really heavy. But progressive loading is also essential for hypertrophy to take place in the long run. Therefore, HST is set up in a unique way to allow progressive loading each workout, leading to more microtruama each workout, leading to no plateus and growth each workout! On top of that, the workouts are more frequent providing more anabolic benefits (increased protein synthesis, increased IGF-1 levels, increased sattelite cells, etc), and the volume is cut in 3rds providing greater recovery for the CNS.
Rating:
Mass gains: 9/10 ( i don't belive any program yet deserves a 10/10)
Strength gains: 7/10

Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training (DFHT):
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...&hl=en&start=5
This program is based on both conjugative periodization and the dual factor theory (fitness fatigue theory). This program can be more complicated then HST, but is great in theory and in work. The program relies on conjugative periodization (training for 2+ goals within 1 week) and on the dual factor theory (concept of loading/deloading). By loading, you have a period of time (around 2-3 weeks), where you train hardcore, high volume, high intensity, and/or high frequency (generally, a mix of the 3 will make a great program). You avoid failure though (normally 1 rep short of it) to allow for more frequent training. During this time, its obvious you will overtrain soon. Overtraining = bad. BUT, you do want to overreach!Overeaching is the beggining steps of overtraining, this is a good thing, as about this time performance falls, so you know you have truly trained to your maximum. Therefore at this time, you deload (usually 1-2 weeks long), a period of time where you go lighter with the weights/volume/frequency, to allow for supercompensation and recovery. You will grow from compensation and from the weightlifting during the period. For more information on the dual factor theory, search for the writings of Mel Siff and others. Just for an example, Bulgarion olympic/power lifters can train everyday 6-7 days a week when loading!
Ratining
Mass gains: 8/10
Strength gains: 8/10

This post is long already, if you guys are honestly interested, I shall keep writing about preiodization for you guys. I hope you see the superior ways of training now, and hope you utulize these principals in your training! thats why i wrote this

Jon

winger · 30-06-2004, 04:18 AM

Only the person training knows if they are overtraining.

Is this a Tony Robbins heavy static training thing? Hold the bar with max weight for 10 to 20 seconds? After 20 seconds you start with 10 again? :confused:

Sychokid · 30-06-2004, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

Only the person training knows if they are overtraining.

Is this a Tony Robbins heavy static training thing? Hold the bar with max weight for 10 to 20 seconds? After 20 seconds you start with 10 again? :confused:

No, Im not familiar with tony robbins, or his training techniques. there is no real inventor of periodization. It is belived to come from the east (think russia and there very very strong athletes), and came here to the west and were influenced somewhat (thats why there are so many periodization techniques).

Jon

ONE SMART COOKIE · 01-07-2004, 01:30 PM

TBH,theres nothing new there at all,the old skool bodybuilders of the 30`s 40`s etc already knew about cycling/periodization call it what you will to keep your muscles growing and full at all times,they trained themselves instinctively to know these little quirks that the body would throw at them, when a routine needed changing or wasnt working,they used to call it the innate animal wisdom,listen to yoyr body and it will tell you everything you need to know.

The reason all this fell out of favour was pure and simple the introduction of steroids and the fact that you could virtualy do any routine you wanted and still grow,so for a vast majority of people correct training and diet took a backseat and drugs came to the forefront,and that still applies today,but ti is getting slightly better but not much.

Magazines and so called gurus throw these ideas out all the time to make it look like they are at the fore front of the game,when in fact most have probably come across an obscure article in an old magazine and re-hashed it to fit into todays way of thinking and then they take all the credit for it.

I have in my shed about 200-300 magazines and books some going back as far as 1912(this one gave me the perfect way to do tricep kickbacks)and you see all the same things cropping up every 10-20yrs as they are re-discovered.

The main reason,imo,why most bbing ideas have stayed stale is the weiders pure and simple,they invented f@#k all when it came to training methods,the pre exhaust theory was robert kennedy`s of musclemag,brain child,he wrote to weider to ask his opinion(bad mistake)next thing he knows its in all the weider mags as the lastest scientific breakthrough,weider never trained anybody he sent them all to vince gironda,arnold,frank zane,larry scott to name a few,weider got rich vince died a poor man.

Some ideas have been backe up scientificaly just take german volume training,that surfaced I think in the 60`s through german scientists looking for the perfect way to build tissue in the shortest possible time and keep injuries down,and it works better than anything I know of for blasting through sticking points.

Take breathing squats(:confused: )they are nothing short of phenonimal(sic)for packing on the pounds in a short amount of time for hard gainers,and the list is endless.

Sychokid · 01-07-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

TBH,theres nothing new there at all,the old skool bodybuilders of the 30`s 40`s etc already knew about cycling/periodization call it what you will to keep your muscles growing and full at all times,they trained themselves instinctively to know these little quirks that the body would throw at them, when a routine needed changing or wasnt working,they used to call it the innate animal wisdom,listen to yoyr body and it will tell you everything you need to know.

I didnt claim anything new, Im simply trying to elaborate more on these periodization methods

Quote:

The reason all this fell out of favour was pure and simple the introduction of steroids and the fact that you could virtualy do any routine you wanted and still grow,so for a vast majority of people correct training and diet took a backseat and drugs came to the forefront,and that still applies today,but ti is getting slightly better but not much.

Magazines and so called gurus throw these ideas out all the time to make it look like they are at the fore front of the game,when in fact most have probably come across an obscure article in an old magazine and re-hashed it to fit into todays way of thinking and then they take all the credit for it.

I have in my shed about 200-300 magazines and books some going back as far as 1912(this one gave me the perfect way to do tricep kickbacks)and you see all the same things cropping up every 10-20yrs as they are re-discovered.

The main reason,imo,why most bbing ideas have stayed stale is the weiders pure and simple,they invented f@#k all when it came to training methods,the pre exhaust theory was robert kennedy`s of musclemag,brain child,he wrote to weider to ask his opinion(bad mistake)next thing he knows its in all the weider mags as the lastest scientific breakthrough,weider never trained anybody he sent them all to vince gironda,arnold,frank zane,larry scott to name a few,weider got rich vince died a poor man.

Some ideas have been backe up scientificaly just take german volume training,that surfaced I think in the 60`s through german scientists looking for the perfect way to build tissue in the shortest possible time and keep injuries down,and it works better than anything I know of for blasting through sticking points.

yep, good points, the "steriod phase" really sparked something. people followed not knowing people were anabolically enhanced. Im simply trying to introduce periodization to the forums as I dont see it too much going on here

Jon

ONE SMART COOKIE · 01-07-2004, 02:12 PM

Sorry there mate didnt mean it to come across as slating your idea,I do agree with you that loads of bbers ust follow like bloody lemmins and cant think for themselves with regards to trying something new or proper planning of training like they do with cycles.

Personnally I never follow a routine for more than 2 weeks without tweeking it in someway or other,when I get chance I`ll post up some of the ones I use on a regular basis.

What people should remember is that when you change your workouts you cause the body to release growth hormone,but dont change too often as it gets used to the constant change so every 2 weeks fits nicely,and thats what the old skool blokes did all the time,regular bulks and regular cutting wether they did shows or not.

Sychokid · 01-07-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONE SMART COOKI

Sorry there mate didnt mean it to come across as slating your idea,I do agree with you that loads of bbers ust follow like bloody lemmins and cant think for themselves with regards to trying something new or proper planning of training like they do with cycles.

Personnally I never follow a routine for more than 2 weeks without tweeking it in someway or other,when I get chance I`ll post up some of the ones I use on a regular basis.

What people should remember is that when you change your workouts you cause the body to release growth hormone,but dont change too often as it gets used to the constant change so every 2 weeks fits nicely,and thats what the old skool blokes did all the time,regular bulks and regular cutting wether they did shows or not.

Chronic stimuli + progressive loading = hypertrophy;)

Jon

Killerkeane · 01-07-2004, 11:33 PM

i cannot tell you how interesting this is to read from clearly too very advanced bodybuilders, but i do have several questions.
I havnt been bodybuilding for long guys, but am constantly reading, revising, learning, anticipating the next bit of information, facts. In the last 5 months i have learned an incredible amount about the body so this stuff really intrigues me. I have been reading your posts thus far sychokid and very impressed with your contributions, so i would be very pleased if you could explain the periodization training methods in a bit more detail.
I have decided my next cycle is going to be 4 weeks, the average glutamine, creatine bla bla bla. Gonna train with very high intensity (30 secs Supersetting), hit each muscle group exetremely hard almost to the point of overtraining. Then im gonna take 2 weeks off, eat like a horse and grow. Just want to read the possible advantages of periodization as i have not came across of this as yet, just going to read the link you posted up.....

Killerkeane · 01-07-2004, 11:50 PM

what an excellent site that is, just saved it to me favourites. I only had a quick look over a few articles, what i found interesting is when amino acids should be consumed (pre or post exercise), i have often thought this as the body must not surely utilise the amino acids immediatly, and would be better taken pre?
Good job sychokid, keep em flowing mate

Sychokid · 02-07-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killerkeane

i cannot tell you how interesting this is to read from clearly too very advanced bodybuilders, but i do have several questions.
I havnt been bodybuilding for long guys, but am constantly reading, revising, learning, anticipating the next bit of information, facts. In the last 5 months i have learned an incredible amount about the body so this stuff really intrigues me. I have been reading your posts thus far sychokid and very impressed with your contributions, so i would be very pleased if you could explain the periodization training methods in a bit more detail.
I have decided my next cycle is going to be 4 weeks, the average glutamine, creatine bla bla bla. Gonna train with very high intensity (30 secs Supersetting), hit each muscle group exetremely hard almost to the point of overtraining. Then im gonna take 2 weeks off, eat like a horse and grow. Just want to read the possible advantages of periodization as i have not came across of this as yet, just going to read the link you posted up.....

yep, what your on about is very close to the dual factor theory (check out the DFHT link), you train really intensely (be it with real high volume, intensity, AND/OR frequency) for a period of about 3 weeks, then take a time period where the intensity, volume, and/or frequency is lowered dramatically, to allow for compensation and growth and to avoid overtraining. This is the theory I believe in the most.

Quote:

what an excellent site that is, just saved it to me favourites. I only had a quick look over a few articles, what i found interesting is when amino acids should be consumed (pre or post exercise), i have often thought this as the body must not surely utilise the amino acids immediatly, and would be better taken pre?
Good job sychokid, keep em flowing mate

yeh, the articles there are really great, Bryan Hancock (author of those articles) even created a forums there to ask questions about his training/dieting methods, and he himself replies.

Im glad someone is finding this interesting

, I guess I shall add future installments to this ;)

Jon

Killerkeane · 02-07-2004, 11:53 AM

excellent mate, you are definetly most welcome

Just had a good read of two of the articles, trying to digest all of it. I might give this a go, after all its only 4-5 weeks, i can spare that.
So the theory is from what i have gathered in simple terms:
I work out my maximum lifts for 15 reps, 10 reps, 5 reps before my next HST cycle. For 2 weeks, i lift the 15 reps for every exercise for every body part. After these 2 weeks, i lift 10 reps, do that for 2 weeks then do the 5 reps for another 2 weeks. After the cycle has finished, i rest for 1 week to allow all the muscle groups to recover and build. I then begin my next cycle on the basis that i have worked out my new maximum lifts for 15, 10, 5 rep ranges.
So the whole theory is based upon progressive loading, and working each muscle group more frequently. This maximises protein synthesis as the body cannot adapt to the conventional "same weight every time" process.

IT does look very good, but some things in my opinion do not add up quite right such as, HST recommends doing 1-2 sets per bodypart as he believes all sets following the initial one or two is just a case of burning more calories?
Although you do the 1-2 sets 3 times per week, i personally dont think this is enough to spur muscle growth to such a large muscle group such as legs/back.

i Do believe 100% by what he is saying about progressive loading, i really do believe the body adapts to strenuous exercise and prevents further muscle growth, and the fact that scientific research backs my arguement aswell. I do believe in this already, as it has foregone much scientific research, critics, test sampling and all have proven succesful. Ill give it a try i think, see what happens.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 02-07-2004, 02:31 PM

In a nutshell all I do is train for 3 weeks and have 1 week off ,simple,then I just change the exercises and rep ranges and bobs your uncle,a laymans guide to periodization.

It also helps to stop boredom which is probably what effects most people a lot of the time.

Sychokid · 02-07-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killerkeane

excellent mate, you are definetly most welcome

Just had a good read of two of the articles, trying to digest all of it. I might give this a go, after all its only 4-5 weeks, i can spare that.
So the theory is from what i have gathered in simple terms:
I work out my maximum lifts for 15 reps, 10 reps, 5 reps before my next HST cycle. For 2 weeks, i lift the 15 reps for every exercise for every body part. After these 2 weeks, i lift 10 reps, do that for 2 weeks then do the 5 reps for another 2 weeks. After the cycle has finished, i rest for 1 week to allow all the muscle groups to recover and build. I then begin my next cycle on the basis that i have worked out my new maximum lifts for 15, 10, 5 rep ranges.

close. During those 2 weeks, you work up to your max. For instance for the 15s, if your max for bench press for that rep range was 150lbs, it would look like this:

first week

mon - 125
wed - 130
fri - 135

second week

mon -140
wed - 145
fri (max) - 150

More then a week is taken off, about 9 days (before the program), to rest is the second goal of it, the first is to decondition the muscle to microtruama so you can respond to the ligth weights found in the 15s. So its actually 6 weeks of training, and if your getting great results like most people, you throw in 2 weeks of extra training doing negatives.

Quote:

so the whole theory is based upon progressive loading, and working each muscle group more frequently. This maximises protein synthesis as the body cannot adapt to the conventional "same weight every time" process.

right

Quote:

IT does look very good, but some things in my opinion do not add up quite right such as, HST recommends doing 1-2 sets per bodypart as he believes all sets following the initial one or two is just a case of burning more calories?
Although you do the 1-2 sets 3 times per week, i personally dont think this is enough to spur muscle growth to such a large muscle group such as legs/back.

Remember, the rule is 1-2 sets per EXERCISE, so for small muscles, that many sets for one exercise is fine, add in another exercise for larger muscles and it will be fine.

Quote:

i Do believe 100% by what he is saying about progressive loading, i really do believe the body adapts to strenuous exercise and prevents further muscle growth, and the fact that scientific research backs my arguement aswell. I do believe in this already, as it has foregone much scientific research, critics, test sampling and all have proven succesful. Ill give it a try i think, see what happens.

Appreciate it, maybe keep a journal also to know if your doing everythign right

Jon

Sychokid · 02-07-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONE SMART COOKI

In a nutshell all I do is train for 3 weeks and have 1 week off ,simple,then I just change the exercises and rep ranges and bobs your uncle,a laymans guide to periodization.

It also helps to stop boredom which is probably what effects most people a lot of the time.

yeh, theres really no "wrong" way to periodize.

Jon

ONE SMART COOKIE · 02-07-2004, 07:22 PM

Right as promised a list of routines I use.
3 sets 8reps(begineres)
5reps 5 sets(reg park favourite)
6x6
8x8(mohamed makkawy olympia routine)
10x10(german volume)
10x10x10(german volume next level)
push day pull day
Up and down the rack
3 days on 3 days off(including supplements)
21days on 7days off
1 1/2reps per rep
1 set every hour(weak bodypart)
1 bodypart per day(overload principle)
Every other day training
4 day split
Beat the clock(serge nubret fav)pick an exercise and see how many sets you can do in the next 10 minutes then next time try to beat it.
100 reps per set working your way upto 300 reps per bodypart
10 8 6 15
Theres more but brains getting tired:confused:

30-06-2004, 03:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sychokid Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 55	Training based upon SCIENCE! Most training programs you see have little to no scientific support or studies backing them up. They are merely based on other people expereinces, which is bad thing to go by for numerous of reasons (genetics, steriods, diet, recovery periods, etc). For about 3 years now, I started researching the human body, muscle anatomy, exercise and its effects on the body, etc. From this I gathered that what most bodybuilders don't know is that the sport of bodybuilding thoroughly believes in the single factor theory, while all other weightlifting sports (powerlifting, olympic lifting, strongmen, sport athletes, etc) use periodization. The reason that bodybuilding still accepts the single factor theory is for 3 reasons: 1. it works 2. most people don't know about periodization 3. this method has been used for generations, people follow and do what other bodybuilders do, not knowing there "anabolicaly enhanced" or have better genetics. So we realize that this single factor theory (basically to keep this post breif, the single factor theory is probably what your training with. Its based on the "supercompensation theory" and you basically train once a week or whenever you feel you have recovered, to failure, moderate volume, etc) works, its just that there are superior methods of training out there (PERIODIZATION!) In short, periodization is a VERY broad term, its just basically organizing your training better to fit your goals (this is a very very generalized statement). There are many many many many ways of going about periodization, and this all depends on your goals. Being that this is a bodybuilding forum, and I dont want to confuse anyone just yet, I shall post programs based on periodization that are mainstream and apply to hypertrophy and strength. Depending on how interested you guys are, I can write future posts relating to periodization. I tried to explain this as basic as I can. There are so many periodization methods out there (dual factor theory, linear periodization, conjugate periodization, cybernetic periodization, pendulam training, just to name a few) and for now since it would literally take hundreds of posts to fully explain different periodization methods, I will provide you with ones I feel are important to what we are talking about now. Just for the record, periodization methods have been used for DECADES now, and have so many studies, books, athletes, and everything else supporting it. Whats so great about periodization is that it goes against everything we do as bodybuilders. They RARELY train to failure, train each muscle as FREQUENTLY as possible, use alot of volume, etc (these all will vary based on your goals and the type of periodization used). So now what you guys have been waiting for: Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST): www.hypertrophy-specific.com This is a form of periodization with a linear approach (decreasing reps/volume while increasing weight over time). The program is split into 4 mesocycles and takes 8 weeks to fully accomplish. This is one of the greatest programs out there if mass is your goal. Since most of the info can be found at the link, here is basically a short summary. When you train, you apply microtrauma (from mechanical loading) to the muscle, this is from the eccentric (negative) portion of the exercise and is essential for hypertrophy (muscle growth) to take place. When a muscle is exposed to a high mechanical load (really heavy weights), the microtruama is really high, and as you know, its really hard to progressive load when your already training really heavy. But progressive loading is also essential for hypertrophy to take place in the long run. Therefore, HST is set up in a unique way to allow progressive loading each workout, leading to more microtruama each workout, leading to no plateus and growth each workout! On top of that, the workouts are more frequent providing more anabolic benefits (increased protein synthesis, increased IGF-1 levels, increased sattelite cells, etc), and the volume is cut in 3rds providing greater recovery for the CNS. Rating: Mass gains: 9/10 ( i don't belive any program yet deserves a 10/10) Strength gains: 7/10 Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training (DFHT): http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...&hl=en&start=5 This program is based on both conjugative periodization and the dual factor theory (fitness fatigue theory). This program can be more complicated then HST, but is great in theory and in work. The program relies on conjugative periodization (training for 2+ goals within 1 week) and on the dual factor theory (concept of loading/deloading). By loading, you have a period of time (around 2-3 weeks), where you train hardcore, high volume, high intensity, and/or high frequency (generally, a mix of the 3 will make a great program). You avoid failure though (normally 1 rep short of it) to allow for more frequent training. During this time, its obvious you will overtrain soon. Overtraining = bad. BUT, you do want to overreach!Overeaching is the beggining steps of overtraining, this is a good thing, as about this time performance falls, so you know you have truly trained to your maximum. Therefore at this time, you deload (usually 1-2 weeks long), a period of time where you go lighter with the weights/volume/frequency, to allow for supercompensation and recovery. You will grow from compensation and from the weightlifting during the period. For more information on the dual factor theory, search for the writings of Mel Siff and others. Just for an example, Bulgarion olympic/power lifters can train everyday 6-7 days a week when loading! Ratining Mass gains: 8/10 Strength gains: 8/10 This post is long already, if you guys are honestly interested, I shall keep writing about preiodization for you guys. I hope you see the superior ways of training now, and hope you utulize these principals in your training! thats why i wrote this Jon Last edited by Sychokid; 30-06-2004 at 10:50 AM.

30-06-2004, 04:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,206 Blog Entries: 1	Only the person training knows if they are overtraining. Is this a Tony Robbins heavy static training thing? Hold the bar with max weight for 10 to 20 seconds? After 20 seconds you start with 10 again? :confused: __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by winger; 30-06-2004 at 04:21 AM.

01-07-2004, 11:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	i cannot tell you how interesting this is to read from clearly too very advanced bodybuilders, but i do have several questions. I havnt been bodybuilding for long guys, but am constantly reading, revising, learning, anticipating the next bit of information, facts. In the last 5 months i have learned an incredible amount about the body so this stuff really intrigues me. I have been reading your posts thus far sychokid and very impressed with your contributions, so i would be very pleased if you could explain the periodization training methods in a bit more detail. I have decided my next cycle is going to be 4 weeks, the average glutamine, creatine bla bla bla. Gonna train with very high intensity (30 secs Supersetting), hit each muscle group exetremely hard almost to the point of overtraining. Then im gonna take 2 weeks off, eat like a horse and grow. Just want to read the possible advantages of periodization as i have not came across of this as yet, just going to read the link you posted up..... __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

01-07-2004, 11:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	what an excellent site that is, just saved it to me favourites. I only had a quick look over a few articles, what i found interesting is when amino acids should be consumed (pre or post exercise), i have often thought this as the body must not surely utilise the amino acids immediatly, and would be better taken pre? Good job sychokid, keep em flowing mate __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen:

02-07-2004, 11:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
Killerkeane The Geezer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somerset although im not proud lol. Posts: 2,978	excellent mate, you are definetly most welcome Just had a good read of two of the articles, trying to digest all of it. I might give this a go, after all its only 4-5 weeks, i can spare that. So the theory is from what i have gathered in simple terms: I work out my maximum lifts for 15 reps, 10 reps, 5 reps before my next HST cycle. For 2 weeks, i lift the 15 reps for every exercise for every body part. After these 2 weeks, i lift 10 reps, do that for 2 weeks then do the 5 reps for another 2 weeks. After the cycle has finished, i rest for 1 week to allow all the muscle groups to recover and build. I then begin my next cycle on the basis that i have worked out my new maximum lifts for 15, 10, 5 rep ranges. So the whole theory is based upon progressive loading, and working each muscle group more frequently. This maximises protein synthesis as the body cannot adapt to the conventional "same weight every time" process. IT does look very good, but some things in my opinion do not add up quite right such as, HST recommends doing 1-2 sets per bodypart as he believes all sets following the initial one or two is just a case of burning more calories? Although you do the 1-2 sets 3 times per week, i personally dont think this is enough to spur muscle growth to such a large muscle group such as legs/back. i Do believe 100% by what he is saying about progressive loading, i really do believe the body adapts to strenuous exercise and prevents further muscle growth, and the fact that scientific research backs my arguement aswell. I do believe in this already, as it has foregone much scientific research, critics, test sampling and all have proven succesful. Ill give it a try i think, see what happens. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Paratus Mens-Fortune favours the prepared mind.:amen: Last edited by Killerkeane; 02-07-2004 at 01:31 PM.

01-07-2004, 01:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	TBH,theres nothing new there at all,the old skool bodybuilders of the 30`s 40`s etc already knew about cycling/periodization call it what you will to keep your muscles growing and full at all times,they trained themselves instinctively to know these little quirks that the body would throw at them, when a routine needed changing or wasnt working,they used to call it the innate animal wisdom,listen to yoyr body and it will tell you everything you need to know. The reason all this fell out of favour was pure and simple the introduction of steroids and the fact that you could virtualy do any routine you wanted and still grow,so for a vast majority of people correct training and diet took a backseat and drugs came to the forefront,and that still applies today,but ti is getting slightly better but not much. Magazines and so called gurus throw these ideas out all the time to make it look like they are at the fore front of the game,when in fact most have probably come across an obscure article in an old magazine and re-hashed it to fit into todays way of thinking and then they take all the credit for it. I have in my shed about 200-300 magazines and books some going back as far as 1912(this one gave me the perfect way to do tricep kickbacks)and you see all the same things cropping up every 10-20yrs as they are re-discovered. The main reason,imo,why most bbing ideas have stayed stale is the weiders pure and simple,they invented f@#k all when it came to training methods,the pre exhaust theory was robert kennedy`s of musclemag,brain child,he wrote to weider to ask his opinion(bad mistake)next thing he knows its in all the weider mags as the lastest scientific breakthrough,weider never trained anybody he sent them all to vince gironda,arnold,frank zane,larry scott to name a few,weider got rich vince died a poor man. Some ideas have been backe up scientificaly just take german volume training,that surfaced I think in the 60`s through german scientists looking for the perfect way to build tissue in the shortest possible time and keep injuries down,and it works better than anything I know of for blasting through sticking points. Take breathing squats(:confused: )they are nothing short of phenonimal(sic)for packing on the pounds in a short amount of time for hard gainers,and the list is endless.

01-07-2004, 02:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	Sorry there mate didnt mean it to come across as slating your idea,I do agree with you that loads of bbers ust follow like bloody lemmins and cant think for themselves with regards to trying something new or proper planning of training like they do with cycles. Personnally I never follow a routine for more than 2 weeks without tweeking it in someway or other,when I get chance I`ll post up some of the ones I use on a regular basis. What people should remember is that when you change your workouts you cause the body to release growth hormone,but dont change too often as it gets used to the constant change so every 2 weeks fits nicely,and thats what the old skool blokes did all the time,regular bulks and regular cutting wether they did shows or not.

02-07-2004, 02:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	In a nutshell all I do is train for 3 weeks and have 1 week off ,simple,then I just change the exercises and rep ranges and bobs your uncle,a laymans guide to periodization. It also helps to stop boredom which is probably what effects most people a lot of the time.

02-07-2004, 07:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE Decided to leave due to idiots & and their over inflated egos Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,015	Right as promised a list of routines I use. 3 sets 8reps(begineres) 5reps 5 sets(reg park favourite) 6x6 8x8(mohamed makkawy olympia routine) 10x10(german volume) 10x10x10(german volume next level) push day pull day Up and down the rack 3 days on 3 days off(including supplements) 21days on 7days off 1 1/2reps per rep 1 set every hour(weak bodypart) 1 bodypart per day(overload principle) Every other day training 4 day split Beat the clock(serge nubret fav)pick an exercise and see how many sets you can do in the next 10 minutes then next time try to beat it. 100 reps per set working your way upto 300 reps per bodypart 10 8 6 15 Theres more but brains getting tired:confused: