The Rave

I agree that wide grip pull downs or chin-ups builds width to the top of the back by increasing the size of the lats, but lets not forget that the lower lats also give width to the lower back!

Nine Pack

This technique really has no place in the training schedules of anyone training to increase muscle size, which is the case for most of the people on this board. It can allow you to increase endurance & strength but will yield little muscular gain in itself. It may be of use to push past a strength plateau & then return to normal methods though.

I am aware of the principles of synaptic facilitation, and Pavel Tsatsouline's methods, but I can't think of a single successful Bber that he has coached. I think this is where we are at cross purposes OSC. My methods are geared purely to the aesthetic of muscular growth, whilst you are talking about strength & endurance. As a Bber, I freely admit that my methods are not necessarily the best approach from a functional point of view (as I am reminded of when trying to dress myself in the morning!), but they do yield better visual gains and that's what 99% of guys in the gym are concerned with. When I stop competing, I will utilise a myriad of different methods & take a more 'all round' approach to my training, but for now and the forseeable future, I'll stick to what I know, and can show works.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

deejpj

id go for wide grip chins

__________________
All I have in this world is my balls, and my word, and I don't break 'em for no one, jou understand?" Tony Montana - Scarface

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ONE SMART COOKIE

I think it has a place in bbing training..

As I pointed out in my first explanation that if extra weight were to be added to this type of regime then increased muscular size would be a byproduct of following it aswell as increases in strength and endurance.

Now if another method (ladders) of increased volume whilst without the need to go into training to failure mode was used then that would also give the individual increases in muscular size whilst still using the same exercise.

Increases in muscular size whilst using the same exercises over & over again can easily be achieved by the use of simple techiques posted above as examples (and there are many more) but also by a simple tweak of reps, sets, rest periods. It is usually the lack of proper planning that mean people fail to make continual gains...

ALL techniques have a place in ALL sports...

And I`m speaking as an ex competing bodybuilder...

And to be a bodybuilder DOESNOT mean that you have to be unfucntional, maybe you should do a bit of research on the likes of Grimek et al and they way they were not only huge guys but also very very functional & athletic..

Nine Pack

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


''I reject your reality and substitute my own''
Adam Savage.

The Rave

I personally think that training to failure works and it works for me! I train at least one set for each muscle (on that day) I train it and am growing in mass and strength faster than when I did not go to failure. I would recommend that you download "Bodybuilding - Mike Mentzer's Hit" from a torrent file as he trains to failure alot for growth!

When you look at it simplistically it makes sense; muscles grow back stronger to cope with additional load, 'The Overload Principal'. The more you overload the muscles, the stronger they must get to cope with the additional loads!

Liam

I'm starting to get the feeling doing bent over rowing is only working my arms as i don't feel like my lats are even getting harder during the exercise.
What else other than chins can i do(can't do chins yet).

I remember i think i used to do an exercise with one knee on the bench then u pull the weight up to your chest, does that work the lats? lol

Ecksarmy11

Can someone explain cable pullovers/pulldowns or post a link ?
Cheers.

SCJP

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lati...BPullover.html

I think you know what pulldowns are!

For Liam:

http://exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor125439

I think any exercise that involves drawing your elbow towards your torso will work your lats.

alex.p

Wide grip pullups behind the neck worked best for me

hertderg

what's better - lat pulldown to front or rear ?

andr0lic

for your rotator-cuff - front,

for your muscles - neither. both hit the entire back complex in different and IMO equally effective manners.


Best back width for me was always close grips because I felt it more in my batwings and less in my rear delts delts create width, but I always thought wide low hanging lats constituted a wide complete back.

__________________
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is still a-flying;
And this sweet flower that blooms today,
Tomorrow will soon be dying

hertderg

Cheers m8 - I'll stick to front for now.

BigDS

i do 2 sets to front and 2 sets to back, both to failure and after deads but before bent over rows.

has worked really well fo me and i like the idea of mixing it up.

side note - really good discussion in this thread. loving the science in ti.

andr0lic

I like your volume D as if one needs more than two focused intense working sets of either, you're not properly stimulating the muscles, and are just doing counterproductive work that will in most cases hinder recover and impede mass accumulation

Id agree to mix them up also, as IMHO there is no exercise done behind the neck that cannot be used productively and safely as long as certain tenets are adhered to.


1. Do NOT go too heavy. I don't care if your name's Branch Warren. You are inviting injury as you won't be able to properly stabilize.

2. Do NOT go all the way down right to the back of the neck. Ear level works fine for more than most.

3. Do NOT lean forward. Of course a slight lean may be warranted, but focus on slightly craning your neck down to allow for proper range-of-motion.

4. Do NOT use a fast rep cadence(speed) as this is where most injuries are prone to manifest. You can explode it up(on presses), if it helps you get in the groove, but control it on the eccentric portion and pause briefly at the turnaround. BTN pulldowns are a trickier and more delicate movement though, because the positive portion of the rep drives the weight right into the danger zone, and those who get overzealous often pay a certain price. So full attention should be given to every inch of the repitition, especially near the bottom as thats where the fatal tweak is most often going to happen.

5. Do NOT make any behind-the-neck movements a staple in your routine or if one is working extremely well for you, allow yourself a period of time to reap the most you can from the movement, but then cycle off any behind the neck work for at least as long as you were hitting it before you resume. It will cause you problems if you constantly push it over the long-term.

-Andy

__________________
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is still a-flying;
And this sweet flower that blooms today,
Tomorrow will soon be dying