Shoulder problem_ROUTINE ADVICE - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Troy McClure · 06-07-2006, 05:32 PM

hey up....

I need some input. Currently got my workouts tuned in to a three day split consisting of Pull (Tues)/ Push (Thurs)/ Leg days (Sat). I've been making good strength gains for the past 2-3 months (although am not growing as am carb cycling again) but basically getting stonger whilst losing body fat (WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY FAT BURNERS OR ECA - just plain diet/cardio/workouts).

The problem I am having is that I dont feel the shoulders are a getting a proper work out.

Any how the routine looks something like:
PULL DAY(back/traps/bi's) stretch, warm-up then:
BACK
- Weighted close grip pull-ups: x3 sets of 10 (last set to fail)

- BB Deadlifts: x3 sets (x10 reps, x8 reps, x6-8 reps)

- Bent over DB rows OR bent over
one arm cable row: x2 sets of 8-10

TRAP
- BB Trap shrugs: x2 sets of 8-10
- DB Trap shrugs: x2 sets of 8-10

BICEPS
- Seated DB curls: x2 sets 8-10
- Seated DB hammers curls: x2 8-10

PUSH DAY(chest/shoulders/tris) stretch, warm-up then:
CHEST
- Incline barbell press: x3 sets (10 reps, 8 reps, 7 reps to fail)
- flat bench BB press: x1 set slow action high rep 15-20 reps
- flat bench DB flyes: x2 sets 8-10
- Seated DB shoulder press: x2 sets 8-10
- DB lateral raises SUPER-SETTED WITH Bent over DB flyes: x2 sets 8-10
- Weighted Dips: x2 sets 8-10
- Seated over head one arm DB tricep extension: x1 slow/high rep set

LEG DAY(quads/hams/calves) stretch, warm-up then:
- BB squat: x4 sets 15+ reps (heavy high rep sets)
- Uni-lateral (one leg) Leg extensions: x2 'slow' sets 8-10 super slow
- Straight leg dead lifts: x3 sets 8-10 reps
- Lunges: x2 sets 10-12 reps

Any advice would be appreciated.

**big** · 06-07-2006, 05:34 PM

When you say you don't "feel" your shoulders are getting a proper workout, are you increasing strength on your shoulder press? And are your shoulders disproportionally small compared to the rest of your body?

**hackskii** · 06-07-2006, 06:05 PM

Need a bit more rear delt work there.
I would also add a set to your rows.

Troy McClure · 06-07-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

When you say you don't "feel" your shoulders are getting a proper workout, are you increasing strength on your shoulder press? And are your shoulders disproportionally small compared to the rest of your body?

I know it isnt relevant but before Xmas I would comfortably shoulder press 40–45KG DB's for 8-12 reps. Admittedly that was when I trained shoulders on a separate day (ie 4 days per week) and wasn't restricting the cals. I now only shoulder press half of that and even then am struggling some: progress is VERY slow if at all.

Im not into to lifting my ego (ie I wont handle any weight that I cant control and keep strict form with) but just felt that with a heavier weight I was actaully getting some growth.... maybe its just psycological.

Any adjustments, extra excercises or suggestions would be appreciated. I was thinking about alternating the order of chest and shoulders each week: chest first one week then shoulders first the next ?????

Troy McClure · 06-07-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

When you say you don't "feel" your shoulders are getting a proper workout, are you increasing strength on your shoulder press? And are your shoulders disproportionally small compared to the rest of your body?

I know it isnt relevant but before Xmas I would comfortably shoulder press 40–45KG DB's for 8-12 reps. Admittedly that was when I trained shoulders on a separate day (ie 4 days per week) and wasn't restricting the cals. I now only shoulder press half of that and even then am struggling some: progress is VERY slow if at all.

Im not into to lifting my ego (ie I wont handle any weight that I cant control and keep strict form with) but just felt that with a heavier weight I was actaully getting some growth.... maybe its just psycological.

Any adjustments, extra excercises or suggestions would be appreciated. I was thinking about alternating the order of chest and shoulders each week: chest first one week then shoulders first the next ?????

**big** · 07-07-2006, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy McClure

I know it isnt relevant but before Xmas I would comfortably shoulder press 40–45KG DB's for 8-12 reps. Admittedly that was when I trained shoulders on a separate day (ie 4 days per week) and wasn't restricting the cals. I now only shoulder press half of that and even then am struggling some: progress is VERY slow if at all.

Im not into to lifting my ego (ie I wont handle any weight that I cant control and keep strict form with) but just felt that with a heavier weight I was actaully getting some growth.... maybe its just psycological.

Any adjustments, extra excercises or suggestions would be appreciated. I was thinking about alternating the order of chest and shoulders each week: chest first one week then shoulders first the next ?????

If you've lost half of your strength on shoulder press, something is VERY wrong.

I'm a little confused as in your first post you said you're gaining strength and losing fat, and in this post you're saying you've lost half your strength in 6 months.

Have you any idea why you've lost that much strength (coming off AAS, poor diet etc)?

DRED · 07-07-2006, 08:45 AM

maybe because your doin chest and delts together,you could be over training your delts as they get worked whilst doin chest aswell!!
just a thought mate!

invisiblekid · 07-07-2006, 11:34 AM

I'd be inclined to agree with Dred. Or its the fact that you started to do your shoulders and chest together. Either way, I'd say you're struggling due to one of those reasons.

I'd suggest something like upright rows in that routine. If I hit a plateau and can't make the step up safely I usually throw in some drop sets @ half weight.

Troy McClure · 07-07-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

If you've lost half of your strength on shoulder press, something is VERY wrong.

I'm a little confused as in your first post you said you're gaining strength and losing fat, and in this post you're saying you've lost half your strength in 6 months.

Have you any idea why you've lost that much strength (coming off AAS, poor diet etc)?

Good point Big

I should have mentioned that in January I damaged my left shoulder doing heavy weighted fixed machine style shoulder presses (I usually stay well away from all fixed machine/smith machine pressing movements as my shoulders don't get on with them)

I spent Jan thru to April having treatment to fix the injury so of course shoulders were getting left out and only really lifting real light to get some blood flowing around the joint.

For the past 2-3 months the joint has been good, BUT my shoulder exercises are the only ones where there has been NO increase in strength.

My back, legs and chest are all making good gains in strength on this routine (although not so much in size) whilst cycling the carbs, AND, although only gradual, Im still losing body fat.

BUT I want to bring up the strength of the delts to avoid it becoming a weak point. Should I cut back on chest work perhaps for a couple of months (on "push day" prioritize shoulders then follow with chest and tris ??) OR as mentioned earlier I have been thinking about alternating the body part each week to see how that works:

week 1 - shoulders then chest, tris
week 2- chest then shoulders, tris, and alternate like this for a couple of months.

Adding in a forth day might seem the logical answer and "yup" I made good gains with a 4 day split BUT I noticed that no matter how much sleep I got it affected my mood (I spent the best part of the day at work in sh*t face mood). I tried cutting back the amount of work on each of the four days, but have found at the moment 3 days a week is the right balance (my general mood is alot better).

Im basically looking for a way to train for just 3 days a week and make gains for all body parts including shoulders.

**big** · 07-07-2006, 05:05 PM

In that case, I agree - prioritise your shoulders by putting them first.

Note that your chest work will PROBABLY suffer to start with (i.e. you will find it harder to bench your usual weight after doing delt work first), but if you expect that, there's no problem.

IMO concentrate on standing overhead press. Not only is that the daddy for delt work, it will also work your stabiliser muscles. Let's face it, your entire body packs on muscle if it needs to hold heavy weights above your head while standing up.

**hackskii** · 07-07-2006, 06:07 PM

Or clean and jerks, or maybe you guys call them clean and press.

I am doing those today.
Start out light, I get fetigued doing those and the whole body gets winded.

Troy McClure · 09-07-2006, 11:08 PM

thanks for the input fellas.

standing shoulder press hasn't been on the menu for a "long" time.

looking forward to a big helping on push day OR as will now be know for the next couple of months...... 'shoulder' and chest day.

cheers.

Littleluke · 09-07-2006, 11:23 PM

My shoulders respond well for some reason so I guess in that respect I'm lucky.. I'd like the calves to respond like that too!

06-07-2006, 05:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Troy McClure semi skilled Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Springfield Posts: 96	Shoulder problem_ROUTINE ADVICE hey up.... I need some input. Currently got my workouts tuned in to a three day split consisting of Pull (Tues)/ Push (Thurs)/ Leg days (Sat). I've been making good strength gains for the past 2-3 months (although am not growing as am carb cycling again) but basically getting stonger whilst losing body fat (WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY FAT BURNERS OR ECA - just plain diet/cardio/workouts). The problem I am having is that I dont feel the shoulders are a getting a proper work out. Any how the routine looks something like: PULL DAY(back/traps/bi's) stretch, warm-up then: BACK - Weighted close grip pull-ups: x3 sets of 10 (last set to fail) - BB Deadlifts: x3 sets (x10 reps, x8 reps, x6-8 reps) - Bent over DB rows OR bent over one arm cable row: x2 sets of 8-10 TRAP - BB Trap shrugs: x2 sets of 8-10 - DB Trap shrugs: x2 sets of 8-10 BICEPS - Seated DB curls: x2 sets 8-10 - Seated DB hammers curls: x2 8-10 PUSH DAY(chest/shoulders/tris) stretch, warm-up then: CHEST - Incline barbell press: x3 sets (10 reps, 8 reps, 7 reps to fail) - flat bench BB press: x1 set slow action high rep 15-20 reps - flat bench DB flyes: x2 sets 8-10 - Seated DB shoulder press: x2 sets 8-10 - DB lateral raises SUPER-SETTED WITH Bent over DB flyes: x2 sets 8-10 - Weighted Dips: x2 sets 8-10 - Seated over head one arm DB tricep extension: x1 slow/high rep set LEG DAY(quads/hams/calves) stretch, warm-up then: - BB squat: x4 sets 15+ reps (heavy high rep sets) - Uni-lateral (one leg) Leg extensions: x2 'slow' sets 8-10 super slow - Straight leg dead lifts: x3 sets 8-10 reps - Lunges: x2 sets 10-12 reps Any advice would be appreciated.

06-07-2006, 05:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beer me Posts: 5,276	When you say you don't "feel" your shoulders are getting a proper workout, are you increasing strength on your shoulder press? And are your shoulders disproportionally small compared to the rest of your body? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-07-2006, 06:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,135	Need a bit more rear delt work there. I would also add a set to your rows. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-07-2006, 08:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
DRED if you build it they will come Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rochester,Kent Posts: 480	delts maybe because your doin chest and delts together,you could be over training your delts as they get worked whilst doin chest aswell!! just a thought mate!

07-07-2006, 11:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
invisiblekid Hitman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,536	I'd be inclined to agree with Dred. Or its the fact that you started to do your shoulders and chest together. Either way, I'd say you're struggling due to one of those reasons. I'd suggest something like upright rows in that routine. If I hit a plateau and can't make the step up safely I usually throw in some drop sets @ half weight. __________________ Most bodybuilders are actually insane. Albert Einstein defined insanity as "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

07-07-2006, 05:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Beer me Posts: 5,276	In that case, I agree - prioritise your shoulders by putting them first. Note that your chest work will PROBABLY suffer to start with (i.e. you will find it harder to bench your usual weight after doing delt work first), but if you expect that, there's no problem. IMO concentrate on standing overhead press. Not only is that the daddy for delt work, it will also work your stabiliser muscles. Let's face it, your entire body packs on muscle if it needs to hold heavy weights above your head while standing up. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-07-2006, 06:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,135	Or clean and jerks, or maybe you guys call them clean and press. I am doing those today. Start out light, I get fetigued doing those and the whole body gets winded. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-07-2006, 11:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Troy McClure semi skilled Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Springfield Posts: 96	thanks for the input fellas. standing shoulder press hasn't been on the menu for a "long" time. looking forward to a big helping on push day OR as will now be know for the next couple of months...... 'shoulder' and chest day. cheers.

09-07-2006, 11:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
Littleluke Junior Bodybuilder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK. Posts: 3,003	My shoulders respond well for some reason so I guess in that respect I'm lucky.. I'd like the calves to respond like that too! __________________ Luke Bartram - Sponsored by BODITRONICS Enter uk-muscle1 as your coupon code when shopping at boditronics to recieve 30% off RRP. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "I do it because I can, I can because I want to, I want to because you said I couldn't" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 2008 UKBFF South Coast - Runner Up 2008 Muscle Mayhem - 2nd place (qualified for NABBA Novice Britain)